Thanat-eros.

[sophiaserpentia]

The act of sex is equivalent to spitting the eye of fate.

It is life, defying its death sentence. It is celebration in the face of eventual loss and sorrow. It is closeness and intimacy in spite of the fear and aloofness bred into us by callousness.

This is why sex is sacred, and why it is such an important battlefield with the archons. The archons must control sex to retain their control; this is how they play ape politics with us. Archontic control of sex is the equivalent of "collaring" the entire society.

Comments

[ex-mommybir.livejournal.com]

By "the archons" I assume you mean St. Paul's "spiritual forces of wickedness". If so, would you say that it is the archons who motivate political institutions such as church and government to institute tight controls on sexual expression?

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

By "the archons" I assume you mean St. Paul's "spiritual forces of wickedness".

More or less. But keep in mind I am not referring to anything necessarily "numinous" or "superficial," though it may be possible to interpret my statements with those kinds of overtones. I have in mind primarily a grand pattern of human self-restriction and self-oppression rooted in the evolution of the human brain and the development of the collective unconscious.


If so, would you say that it is the archons who motivate political institutions such as church and government to institute tight controls on sexual expression?

As I have interpreted it, yes. The moment the church plays at being an institution "of the world," it risks becoming the sort of oppressive authority from which I believe Jesus and Paul tried to liberate us.

[ex-mommybir.livejournal.com]

I hope this doesn't come across badly, but that icon of you looks frighteningly like Kirstie Alley. I like *you*, but I find Alley terribly annoying. *g*

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

::laughs:: No one's ever compared me to Kirstie Alley before.

[twistedcat.livejournal.com]

can you give more information on the archons as a human pattern? what specific qualities do you ascribe to that archetype?

i know you talked about this somewhat the other day, but this is more specific than i got out of your previous writings and i am curious.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

This points back to the entry I made a couple of weeks ago about a "memetic parasite" which I believe is posing as religion, and to the posts I made earlier this week about defying fate. While religion provides clear benefits and survival value (and that of course is beyond or in addition to the possibility that religious doctrine is correct) the "parasite" by definition does not.

This is an idea I'm just starting to flesh out and my discussion of it so far is meant to be taken on more of an intuitive level; I am not trying to spell out theories as much as record thoughts and impressions about this.

[theodora.livejournal.com]

Second twistedcat's request for further explication of term "archon."

A bunch of liberating threads about sex on this Rialto today, it's kind of great.

[alobar.livejournal.com]

You talking about all sex? Or just sex for procreation here?

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

All sex.

Edit to add: The new theory of neurotheology proposes that the "god circuits" in the brain evolved hand-in-hand with the same circuits that allow us to feel sexual pleasure.

re: your edit

[twistedcat.livejournal.com]

yes. the same ecstacy i feel when i touch source is the same feeling i get when i orgasm. ok, that may have been TMI, but i'm trying to prove a point.

i've been putting together a new workshop in which people find that place where it feels like they're no E/X simply through journeywork/meditation. my biggest problem is i don't want to teach it to creepy people ;-)

where does creativity fit into this theory, if at all? also workingo n a women's workshop to help achieve balance between those two. so many women i know get into a relationship and lose their creativity, or are at their most creative when they are celibate; i maintain you can have both, it's a balance issue within the 1st chakra.

and yes, i could easily teach a co-ed workshop, but many women have safety issues around sex and i'd like them to feel ok being open in the class....

Re: your edit

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

That reaction is far from unique.

Some (especially those who know me well, hehehe) may suppose I am advocating wanton lustfulness vs. harsh ascetism. But I just want to clarify that this is a false dichotomy that distracts from the real issue; the real dichotomy I'm perceiving is between fear of flesh vs. acceptance of flesh.

As for your practical questions regarding seminars -- that is not something I have experience with, but I know people who have done sex-positive seminars. There may be one or two who read this in fact. ;-) If no one speaks up, or if I don't think of any suggestions, I'll send an email or two...

[alobar.livejournal.com]

If that is the case, then it seems to follow that animals which engage in sex for pleasure are also capable to tapping into the "god circuits". Animals which come most readily to mind in this regard are dolphins & octopii.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

I don't see why not. OTOH to confirm that hypothesis I would have to know more about dolphin and octopus neurology.

[alobar.livejournal.com]

While not directly related, I thought you might be interested in octopus learning here: http://www.livejournal.com/users/achadachad/81765.html

[alobar.livejournal.com]

I was very much thinking of the statement you made about the god circuits being tied into the same circuits which allow us to feel sexual pleasure when I penned the posts I made earlier tonight against circumcision. When writing this post in particular http://www.livejournal.com/users/alobar/789653.html, I was very much thinking of what you said. I ended my post with a quote from http://montagunocircpetition.org/index.php?pcf=genitalpain which states:

This fundamentalist/orthodox morality of Western Civilization requires that the sensual/sexual pleasures of the body must be extremely limited if not destroyed to achieve "salvation of the soul" (re, the "virtues" of celibacy, virginity and chastity). What better place to begin than with the mutilation and destruction of the genitals which are designed to experience

which comes directly back to my thoughts that religions based in celibacy, virginity, chastity, and genital mutilation are inherantly antithetical to the god circuits.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

The only caveat on that I would note, is that for some celibacy appears to be an effective mystical tool. However, my stance on that is, if that is what works, then fine; but it seems to me harmful to advocate celibacy for anyone other than an anchorite or maybe a priest (depending on the order).

The issue here is that the archontic hegemony mistrusts direct mystical experience and anything that resembles it.

[alobar.livejournal.com]

I have no problem with most anything if it is a self-chosen mystical path. But when something is foisted upon the young & told it is "holy" to "mortify the flesh" or be celibate until marriage that just squicks me out.

I do wonder if the huge amount of BDSM I see these days will diminish if children are raised more in love & respect & caring than they are now. I would not attempt to answer that question, but I would like to see a comparison of two cultures with very different levels of sensitivity in child rearing.

> the archontic hegemony mistrusts
> direct mystical experience

hehe -- whereas I distrust any & all groups (and persons) which (or who) distrust direct mystical experience

[yvesilena.livejournal.com]

I deifnitely feel ilke that as well... although I also feel that the phallus is like a rude little tongue poked out at eternity, or a rude little rocket shooting through infinity, while the vagina *is* infinity and eternity, which is why I don't understand how anyone can relate to having a vagina... and also I think why women often feel defeated and men victorious after sex, because the woman has briefly taken on the role of time and space and been defeated, while for the man, all time and space has briefly become his kingdom. (And that's also why if you deliberately reverse the gender roles during sex, the opposite happens, because it's definitely to do with what you have on the mental/spiritual plane rather than the physical. I literally forget what I've got sometimes :)

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

also I think why women often feel defeated and men victorious after sex, because the woman has briefly taken on the role of time and space and been defeated, while for the man, all time and space has briefly become his kingdom.

Actually I would call any reaction to sex that does not cultivate a feeling of equality between partners, to be an impulse that favors the archontic influence that hates flesh. Thus I think that the "archons" favor this impression and promote it.

Zoology tells us that males compete for the chance to mate, and then the victorious male must persuade or coerce the waiting female. I wonder though to what extent our conditioning reads into what is going on.

Sex is not a "victory" of male over female, but people are encultured to think that way. If a woman feels defeated afterwards, she is not inclined to feel closer to the man with whom she was just intimate. She will in the future feel more guarded and less inclined to be open.

Riane Eisler had an interesting thought. What if the vagina were described culturally as a force that conquers by surrounding and overwhelming? Or as a "genetrix" that envelops and surrounds with life-giving warmth?


I literally forget what I've got sometimes

Me too. I like when that happens. :-D

[yvesilena.livejournal.com]

Actually I would call any reaction to sex that does not cultivate a feeling of equality between partners, to be an impulse that favors the archontic influence that hates flesh. Thus I think that the "archons" favor this impression and promote it.

I thought you were into BDSM - am I missing something? (Probably!)

If a woman feels defeated afterwards, she is not inclined to feel closer to the man with whom she was just intimate.

Nnnn... well, yes, *I'm* like that, but Casby seems to be just the opposite. ;)

What if the vagina were described culturally as a force that conquers by surrounding and overwhelming? Or as a "genetrix" that envelops and surrounds with life-giving warmth?

lol, I've thought of that. Still rather have a willy though.

*is enjoying this*

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

I thought you were into BDSM

Oh, I am! But I practice it as consentual power exchange. The very idea of "power exchange" implies that two (or more) people who begin as equal partners negotiate an exchange of power for mutual growth and pleasure.


*I'm* like that, but Casby seems to be just the opposite.

Some might take 'defeat' to be a kind of violation; others might take it as a welcome conquest. Some feminists have described all heterosexual sex as rape; whereas I know women who love to feel 'taken' in just the right way. The key difference is that violation is an act committed without respect or compassion.

So it is not the act of ravishing itself that is the problem, but the spirit in which it is done, and the closeness or isolation it cultivates.


lol, I've thought of that. Still rather have a willy though.

Hehehe. Most of the time I wish I could veer back and forth at will. It would be really nice to have a yoni, but I don't want to give up my lingam to get it.

[yvesilena.livejournal.com]

Ah, we *were* talking about the same thing at cross purposes. That all makes sense :)

(Can't they make perfect hermaphrodites yet? :/ )

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

(Can't they make perfect hermaphrodites yet? :/ )

If so, I am unaware of it.

hagiasophiadonkey

[belisariuss.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if I completely understand you

I don't think sex in any way spits in the face of fate

to embrace sex
or procreation

is to embrace death

to create life
is to create the certainty of death

I agree that celebration can occur
in the face of ultimate destruction

I also agree
that control of something like sex
can quickly be perverted for many social control reasons

but
those saying
that there will be no line
which shall not be crossed

are living in a fantasy world
nearly as unreal as the everlasting hills


the river is life

but
at some point
the river is death


Constantine

Re: hagiasophiadonkey

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

To create life in the face of certain death, is an act of hope and faith committed in defiance of death and fate.

I think this is the message of Christianity -- that Jesus defied fate, defied the archontic order, and lost his life for it -- but was given that life back, because the Father so approved of what Jesus had done.

To enjoy sex, in a free and sacred way, is to defy the archontic order that would demand we submit to fate. As I pointed out above, it is neurologically related to mystical experience. Mystical experience is that which connects us to the divine presence; and I believe the divine presence wants us to transcend fate.

hagiasophiadonkey of the church of latter day saints and other prophets

[belisariuss.livejournal.com]

I think the true defiance of death
would to be
to no longer live
so that nothing may be taken by death

to create light
makes possible the darkness


I don't know
with what basis within the religion of christianity
you base some of your thoughts

this isn't meant as an insult
simply a statement of interpretation

I see your point
but
I simply have a hard time seeing
how scripture
at all supports what you say

jesus may have swept away
the more unnecessary laws
of diet
and cleanliness

but
it seems quite clear
that he established a very clear moral order
that at times
you would almost appear to be at odds with


we like to fluff religion up
and say how god is love

I think we forget
the god many of us worship
is the god who annihilated sodom and gomorrah

the christian, jewish, muslim god
is a god who accepts us
but not always on our terms


Constantine