sophiaserpentia: (Default)
[personal profile] sophiaserpentia
Among the transphobic stuff from a couple of weeks ago, one thing that sticks in my memory is the accusation that transsexuals (male to female they mean of course, because FTMs are invisible) are deliberately misappropriating femininity, diluting it so that it has no real meaning anymore.

I want to tackle this head-on because i can see how someone with feminist sensibilities would be concerned about this. I've been to enough drag shows to see how this concern would develop. Myths and stories concern me too: why, for exampe, in Hindu mythology the most beautiful woman who ever breathed is a man in disguise, and why did Dustin Hoffman's Tootsie become a better advocate for women's rights than any of the women around her?

Perhaps what underlies this portrayal of transgenderism is a largely unconscious attitude that if men did take on 'women's work' -- whether that be seducing men or standing up for women's rights -- that they would do it better. But fiction is not real-life, and the real-life attitude of most men towards transwomen is vastly different.  My belief is that this attitude is inserted by the dominant culture into media portrayals of transgenderism.

It seems to me that if transsexualism were a patriarchal plot to undermine femininity, then transwomen would be highly prized, be celebrated in the media, have more privilege than women, and be more highly valued than women as sex partners and spouses.

The charge of misappropriation only works if transwomen are "really men" who retain men's privilege in some form even after finding ways to cover the expense and cope with the pain of transition. It presumes that there are no parallels whatsoever between what women experience and what transwomen experience. It presumes that the men who line up for "undermining women duty" are rewarded or celebrated in some way. None of this holds up to any actual scrutiny:

I can offer an alternate hypothesis for the positive portrayal of transwomen in myths, stories, and media: it is indeed misappropriation -- of transgenderism. The dominant culture dips into the expression and experience of the oppressed transgender culture and borrows what it likes, treats the entire subject as humorous, inserts what it thinks is important about being transgendered without any concern for our reality, and overall conveys the impression that transgenderism is merely the wearing of a disguise. This is why every portrayal of transwomen in the dominant culture's media focuses overmuch on "applying makeup and strutting around in frilly dresses". To paraphrase Kate Bornstein, if i thought that's all there was to being transgendered, i'd be suspicious too.

ETA: after consideration, i've decided to crosspost this to [community profile] feminist.

Date: 2007-01-09 04:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] polydad.livejournal.com
I have a number of trans friends, who periodically do me the favor of helping me try to relieve my ignorance. Usually doesn't work, but it's good of them to try. Since I don't get why men and women behave in the ways they do in the first place, figuring out why one would try to act like the other is even more confusing, regardless of which direction it's going in.

best,

Joel. Semiprofessionally puzzled.

Date: 2007-01-09 07:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alobar.livejournal.com
There is a highly believed myth which states that there are 2 opposite sexes and everyone is either all male or all female. But there are lots of eceptions to this myth. I would even go so far as to say that most everyone has some characteristics and emotional feelings of the sex they are not. Sex, to me, is a spectum, rather than a duality. It is a bi-modal curve in which many people are predominately either male or female. But the curve is continuous, with lots of people between the two peaks. And very few people at 100% male or 100% female.

Date: 2007-01-09 08:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] polydad.livejournal.com
I *think* you're discussing a bimodal saddle distribution. Do you geek statistics?

best,

Joel

Date: 2007-01-09 08:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alobar.livejournal.com
Somewhat, but it has been 40 years since I took a stat course in college.

Date: 2007-01-09 09:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] polydad.livejournal.com
They probably want it back by now, then. Or we could fuck them, but given the subject of discussion, who is to be fucking whom and with what might engender a fair amount of disagreement and/or discussion. As long as all involved agree and have a good time, though, I suspect it doesn't matter.

best,

Joel

Date: 2007-01-09 04:58 pm (UTC)
ineffabelle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ineffabelle
Good post!
There are other problems too, relating on the level of tropes (that is, specific symbol sets), rather than the level of archetypes/stereotypes.
An integral part of the feminist project as I see it is the breaking down of the "man/woman" construct, as a source of disunity and discrimination. All too often, I think maybe because the "male" construct is seen as more powerful, its tropes are seen as a neutral default. (to oversimplify: "everyone would be 'male' if they could be") This strikes me as highly problematic because it seems to take the male mythos at its face value.
But curiously in male-dominated cultures, many of the "female" tropes are feared, and warned against.
Which would suggest to me that a better outlook toward deconstructing gender might be a more anarchic one, in which all tropes are open as a possibility to all people, regardless of their chromosomes/genitals, rather than seeking to obliterate the "female" tropes.
One of the troubling things about those transphobic comments you referenced in your earlier post is that many of these people are reifying essentialism while calling themselves "feminist", which I find almost contradictory, or if not contradictory, then that's even worse, because it's just naked tribal power lust then.
This also touches on the factor that there's really two types of privilege, those things which no one should have, and those things which everyone should have. This is often overlooked or blurred.

Date: 2007-01-09 05:12 pm (UTC)
ineffabelle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ineffabelle
Funny enough actually, I was working on some anarchist stuff last night about Patriarchy as "the second state", and how most statist measures that look like they're liberating women are actually just appropriating "property". I.e. the corporate state doesn't de-commodify women (just look at corporate dress codes for women, or advertising for that matter), it just transfers ownership from the Patriarchy to the corporations. It's just a power grab.
Nonetheless, the corporate state, being more rational and less "religious/traditional" (for now... unless the Republicans totally get their way) is a less restrictive master, and offers more opportunities to find freedom in tiny spaces...
So Patriarchy, the hidden, second state, is even more statist than the visible, corporate state. Which, given the way states operate through deceptive mythology, kind of makes sense.

Date: 2007-01-09 06:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] herbalgrrl.livejournal.com
"...that look like they're liberating women are actually just appropriating 'property'. I.e. the corporate state doesn't de-commodify women (just look at corporate dress codes for women, or advertising for that matter), it just transfers ownership from the Patriarchy to the corporations. It's just a power grab."


Exactly! I've made this argument over & over... that the mainstreaming of the feminist movement happened when it was co opted by those who successfully spread the meme that consumerisn/workism= feminism.

Date: 2007-01-09 05:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nobody-.livejournal.com
It seemed to me the main concern was that transgenderism fetishizes gender by associating attributes that are more cultural than biological in origin with gender in some essential manner. I find this an interesting point to consider, but in the end, I think it misses the mark; it seems in actual experience that transgenderism shakes up gender associations more than it reinforces them. I think that when people can undergo surgery and other transformations and basically take on all characteristics associated with the "opposite" gender except for procreative functions, it makes people stop and wonder, "What is gender then?" We're not going to simply be able to discard all notions associated with gender overnight; the only way we can start to change them is to blur the lines. And I think that this opens the door to a kind of freedom in the exploration of personal identity that transcends gender concerns and that is beneficial to society as a whole, because it points to the fact that there is more to who we are than what society tells us we are born to be.

Date: 2007-01-10 12:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ravendiana.livejournal.com
In relation to your points about media protraly what did you think of the one Trans cahracter in "Pracilla Queen of the Desert"? I always found her to be the most interesting character in the film....

good news!

Date: 2007-01-10 04:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kitkatlj.livejournal.com
It is not known what percentage of the transgender population is homeless and/or prostituted, but it is disproportionately, even shockingly, high.


I hope this makes you feel better: one of the home-having and nonprostituted ones that I've seen is not only in both of those categories, but a successful jazz musician around here. :-D Hopefully stories of diverse, random positive lives that transgender people also end up living will brighten your mood!

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