(no subject)

[sophiaserpentia]

Can it possibly get worse? With every day that passes, i allow myself to think that maybe we've seen the worst, and now it will start to get better. But every day has shown only deterioration and worsening in New Orleans.

It's hard to believe this is New Orleans.

We spent the last few hours at the New Orleans Convention Center. There are thousands of people lying in the street.

We saw mothers holding babies, some of them just three, four and five months old, living in horrible conditions. Diapers littered the ground. Feces were on the ground. Sewage was spilled all around. These people are being forced to live like animals. When you look at the mothers, your heart just breaks.

Some of the images we have gathered are very, very graphic.

We saw dead bodies. People are dying at the center and there is no one to get them. We saw a grandmother in a wheelchair pushed up to the wall and covered with a sheet. Right next to her was another dead body wrapped in a white sheet.

Right in front of us a man went into a seizure on the ground. No one here has medical training. There is nowhere to evacuate these people to.

People have been sitting there without food and water and waiting. They are asking -- "When are the buses coming? When are they coming to help us?" We just had to say we don't know.

The people tell us that National Guard units have come by as a show of force. They have tossed some military rations out. People are eating potato chips to survive and are looting some of the stores nearby for food and drink. It is not the kind of food these people need.

They are saying, "Don't leave us here to die. We are stuck here. Why can't they send the buses? Are they going to leave us here to die?"

--CNN's Chris Lawrence, posted here on CNN's New Orleans news blog.

Comments

[azaz-al.livejournal.com]

I hope good thoughts can do something because I am sending good thoughts to the people I know who I know are there right now. And everyone else there, of course.
There's nothing else I can do.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

I don't know what else to do either, love.

[boi-in-boots.livejournal.com]

I don't mean to be a jerk about it, and my heart really does go out to the people, but I was listening to the news earlier, and the audio I heard of the crowd and some of the commentary sounded like there were people acting like animals..the bus drivers and news crews seemed scared to go in there for fear of being attacked or having someone attacked so someone else could get on...

[boi-in-boots.livejournal.com]

another quick update...You may or may not know this, but I live in Lafayette, Louisiana, where some of the refugees from the New Orleans area evacuated to. Well, there is word that some of our "guests" have started holding up the locals. How's that for gratitude? The "poor them" ploy isn't holding as much water now...

[kumbunny.livejournal.com]

And this is what sophia speculated would happen in an earlier post.

[cullent.livejournal.com]

It's what happens to refugees everywhere, all the time. It's how good people rationalize allowing their fellows to suffer and die.

[boi-in-boots.livejournal.com]

excuse me. This has nothing to do with what happened in their hometown. this has to do with how they are treating their hosts. They are more than welcome to stay with us till they can get back on their feet. All we ask in return is they continue to be civil with us.

[akaiyume.livejournal.com]

Approximately what percentage of the population that your city has taken in has committed a crime? If you are changing your attitude toward the group for what individuals have done then that is exactly what Sophia was talking about earlier and talks about often here.

[boi-in-boots.livejournal.com]

ever heard the saying "A bad apple spoils the bunch"? (it's used often against Christianity and other religions who have the audacity to tell people that certain actions are inherantly wrong). I do not have anything against the group as a whole. However, the evacuees who have taken to crimes against their hosts (as well as those who stayed in the New Orleans area with the specific intent to loot) has convinced me to watch my back.

[aerope.livejournal.com]

that is so sad. i feel sympathetic for people looting stores if that's how it is. at least the store owners have insurance...if you have no food then you don't have *anything*.

[gentlemaitresse.livejournal.com]

I have no problem with them taking food. The food was going to go bad, anyway, and there was no place else for them to get it.

But there has to be a mental deficiency in some people for them to take large appliances, etc! What did they plan to do with those?? What right did they think they had to just take that stuff?

And the cops were helping. That really made me angry.

[gentlemaitresse.livejournal.com]

Reading that just now, I felt sympathy. But I also remembered seeing that same report on the news this afternoon, while I was eating lunch at Red Lobster. They were begging and pleading for help. They were DEMANDING it, as if they have a RIGHT to have others serve them! I was really disgusted by the attitudes I saw.

[cullent.livejournal.com]

While you were eating lunch at Red Lobster, you had the gall to be disgusted at people demanding rescue because they had bad attitudes? When's the last time you were without food and water, and with little hope of rescue, your home destroyed, your friends and family possibly dead, and with hunger, thirst, fear, and death all around you? Try it and see how civil you are.

[gentlemaitresse.livejournal.com]

While you were eating lunch at Red Lobster, you had the gall to be disgusted at people demanding rescue because they had bad attitudes?

Yep. It wasn't a problem at all, and I feel no guilt about it in any way.

[cullent.livejournal.com]

Guilt is for hypocrites. I was just expressing my own disgust that anybody could be so selfish and mean-spirited and plain ignorant.

[gentlemaitresse.livejournal.com]

Ha ha ha. I'm sure I appear selfish and mean-spirited to you. Ignorant? Hardly.

Do you never eat at a restaurant? Ever??

[kumbunny.livejournal.com]

You are clutching at mute and distorted points here. I suspect you are claiming dominance over this argument. But trust me, you are sinking to the level of a desperate serf.

[gentlemaitresse.livejournal.com]

You're funny.

[cullent.livejournal.com]

No I don't -- lots of folks don't. But I do eat. Only I wouldn't be thinking about how disgusting hungry people were for demanding food while I stuffed my face. You appear as ignorant to me as you do selfish and mean-spirited. It's not like there's a universal standard for these things that you either meet or don't meet.

[gentlemaitresse.livejournal.com]

Their demanding attitude just seems to show their entitlement mentality.

Oh, and now the people who are trying to help them evacuate and take them food and water are being shot at and attacked.

[kumbunny.livejournal.com]

I see your point now cullent. How fitting that someone would illustrate your point instantly after recieving it in my inbox.

I am appalled by gentlemaitresse's response. And yes, I am surprised by it. I would have liked to think I would not see it in sophia's LJ.

[gentlemaitresse.livejournal.com]

I meant to say they WEREN'T begging and pleading for help, which is what it sounded like in the post here. They weren't begging and pleading for help, they were demanding it. As if they're entitled.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

Would it have made you feel better if they had?

[gentlemaitresse.livejournal.com]

Would it make you feel better if I said no? Or what is it you want to hear?

I don't like the entitlement mentality. Period.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

Yet you feel entitled to see people begging.

[gentlemaitresse.livejournal.com]

And you continue to make assumptions about me.

I don't feel entitled to anything. I don't even want to see them begging! I'd much rather see them stand up and walk out of that place. Maybe someone would give them a ride along the way, I don't know.

But I was commenting on the fact that *reading* this news story sounded totally different from *seeing* it on TV. By reading it, it sounds like they are pleading for help, when in reality they were angrily demanding that somebody else do something for them.

[gentlemaitresse.livejournal.com]

Maybe what bothers me about the demanding attitude is that if one of my young children were to come to me demanding that I get them something to eat or drink, I'd certainly not do it. I teach them to behave nicely, and I'm so frustrated by the lack of manners in our society.

Then we have these people, whom we'd like to help, raping each other and shooting at the people who want to bring them food and water!

Yes, I realize some people there are victims. There are those who couldn't get out. The government let them down. But also there seems to be a mentality in this country that says someone owes us something. Those few of us who support the idea of personal responsibility are called cold-hearted and cruel. Any politician that dares to mention that phrase "personal responsibility" gets slaughtered in the press, not to mention in public sentiment. Much as I've been verbally attacked here.

BTW, did you hear about the National Guard not allowing the little boy to take his dog with him on the bus today? I think it happened today... Anyway, I'm sure there was a good reason for it, but the boy cried so hard he threw up. THAT makes me sad. That something that meant so much to a little boy had to be taken from him, after all he's been through, just because of some rule or something. Or maybe it was so there'd be room for more people. I hope one day he can understand and forgive. :-/

[azaz-al.livejournal.com]

I used to have respect for you but I have just lost all of it. You make me sick.

[gentlemaitresse.livejournal.com]

Ah, now *there's* a good way to engage someone in a discussion of ideas and show them where you think they are mistaken.

[boddhisatva39.livejournal.com]

uh, pardon me, but they are quite justified in expecting the help from their national government in a time of grave crisis.

It is one of the primary reasons that a Federal government exists: to provide for the common welfare, especially in times of crisis.

That means the rich, the poor, the educated, and uneducated. That means that people who are too poor or unable to evacuate, or who are evacuated to approved shelters, should have the reasonable expectation of humane conditions until they can be relocated and begin rebuilding their lives.

The Federal funds we all contribute to are supposed to ensure this, and especially, for those who are unable to help themselves in crisis situations. They are typically workers of the "blue collar" class who have very little access to many systems, yet work full or part time; they are often also students at trade schools and community colleges. They have little capital, but do the best they can. Others are handicapped, elderly, or children who do not have a reliable and instantaneous support network in place at all times.

Being unable to evacuate from a hurricane zone--and surviving the storm-- absolutely should not amount to a death sentence, or a mandatory sentence into a living hell that will haunt you for the rest of your life.

Please be aware that at any time in an individual's life, they can be on the bottom of the economic and social "food chain"; they may (and often do) rise from it, too. This does not make them expendable, evil, or worthy of whatever contempt, abuse, or neglect that can be heaped upon them by those who happen to be in a more comfortable position right now.

In that logic lies madness--and destruction of civilizations. "Let them eat cake" should be an object lesson, if you can fully understand that situation, and many others like it throughout history.

We all pay taxes in our community to have parks, public roads, water and pewer systems, community centers, sports complexes, public schools, and many, many other things. Not everyone wants or uses everything that the collective public funds, but everyone is supposed to be able to have common access.

Same goes for Federal emergency assistance, security, and reconstruction. These are some of the most important things we all pay for. And in case you didn’t know it, even the poor pay into many types of Federal tax systems, including every time they purchase gasoline and many other trade items.

It was NOLA and the Gulf Coast's turn this time. Last year, it was Florida and North Carolina (and NC in a big way in 1999); California got hit by large earthquakes, and the Western states have devastating wildfires.

Do you understand more now than you did a few minutes ago?

I certainly hope so, because to be incensed because American citizens act "entitled" to timely and adequate assistance, security, and aid during a sudden, large scale natural disaster shows an appalling lack of understanding of basic civics, let alone simple compassion.

it was only a matter of time

[layitlarge.livejournal.com]

http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?2005/08/31/2
I'm surprised that it wasn't Pat Robertson who said it first. But someone probably put duct tape over his mouth after the Pres. Chavez comments and praying on national tv for a supreme court justice to die so Bushwad could nominate a new self righteous right wing judge.

Re: it was only a matter of time

[gentlemaitresse.livejournal.com]

I had been waiting for Pat to say it, too. It's unfortunate that so many of us knew someone would say it.

Re: it was only a matter of time

[boddhisatva39.livejournal.com]

By the way, I bet it is safe to assume that you have never been in anything like the type of situation that these people suddenly encountered, and therefore, you have no idea about what it is like.

You also have no idea how you yourself would respond in that circumstance, because no one can know unless they have been through such a series of extremely harrowing shocks--and subsequent crowding, heat, deprivation, isolation, and fear.

You also would not likely to be "polite" all the time after a week of this, either, so just drop it, O.K.? Polite, by the way, got them nowhere, either.

And, by the way: the vast majority of those living the the hell and fear of downtown NOLA HAVE managed to remain extremely civil under some of the worst human conditions that can exist.

You really need to stop trying to verbally "put these people in their place". It is shallow, ill-informed, and utterly demeaning.

And one more thing: I, too, am a mother--one who was a 23-year old widowed mother of three children under the age of five and at the same time a freshman in college who "raised my children to be polite", too. I have also risen from a street-level, uneducated teen worker living on my own at fifteen because I had no family, to working at the top levels of the Federal Government and commercial hi-tech industries, and I teach college, too.

I DO know something about this stuff, too, and frankly, it appears d*** sight more than you.

I have also been down in those swamps rescuing my neighbors and strangers after major floods when I was just a kid. I am from down there, and I am a swamp rat and possess some deep ties to some of the finest Coonasses on Earth.

Step off. I can't stand to read anymore. I am ashamed of you and for you.