(no subject)

[sophiaserpentia]

Foods with a low-glycemic index, which are digested relatively slowly and cause smaller increases in blood sugar, may protect the heart and blood vessels better than low-fat fare, according to the findings of a small study.

Researchers in Boston found that when obese people consumed as many carbohydrates with a low-glycemic index as they wanted, they lost just as much weight in 12 months as people who stuck with a conventional, calorie-restricted low-fat diet.

from Low-glycemic may be better than low-fat diet

After I switched a month ago to a selective-carb diet I had an initial "lurch" of weight loss -- shedding of water -- which appears to have slowed.

The difficulty I have found with a low-fat eating style is that you have to restrict your eating while eating foods that make you hungry -- creating a constant feeling of having to resist your own body's needs. You don't get that particular feeling of restriction with selective-carb, but there is a different kind of restriction -- most of the food which is widely available is starchy or highly-glycemic. I can eat all I want of what's allowed, but the range of what's allowed can be uncomfortably narrow.

Since I gave up sucralose a few days ago, I haven't felt panic, loss of breath, or heart flutterings. Some other strange symptoms I was having have disappeared too -- things I was just starting to worry about but hadn't mentioned to anyone. Weird pains I was having in my liver area have stopped, and the trouble I was starting to have in keeping my eyes focused has ended. I don't seem to be as scatterbrained as I was right after cutting back on caffeine. Also, the weirdly scaly dry skin I was developing on my hands feels normal this morning.

So I feel better after giving up sucralose and cutting way back on caffeine, but now I'm having trouble finding flavored drinks! This is frustrating because I dislike the taste of water. I drink a lot of it now but I have been bargaining with myself by promising to drink something flavored later. But my options are now very limited! If I stop at a store on the way to work, there are no ideal options; the best options now appear to be milk or fruit juice. Fruit juice is of course high in sugar, although if I get 100% juice the sugar is fructose, which is in the mid-glycemic range. Because of this I was betting on herbal iced teas, but I'm afraid that now I may have mentally associated herbal tea with the effects I was having from sucralose. Hrm, any suggestions?

Comments

[stacymckenna.livejournal.com]

Are you mentally associating ALL herbal teas, or could you perhaps go with flavors you weren't drinking when you were having the sucralose issues?

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

Not a bad idea.

two suggestions

[contentlove.livejournal.com]

1) I've weaned myself from fruit juice to veggie juice. V-8 is a good example of one that's pretty easy to find, although what I'm drinking right now is my supermarket's (HEB) brand, called VeggieTwist - same deal but cheaper because it's not nationally marketed. Many markets have a housebrand, and it generally comes as "regular" or "spicy." Spicy is really good. About 50 calories a serving, as opposed to 120 or so for a comparable portion of fruit juice.

2) Tea (non caffeinated herbal, comes in a bazillion flavors). Make it at home by the gallon, bring it to work. Or keep your gallon jar at work. You don't need hot water - the infusion will work with lukewarm as long as you let it sit overnight (or put it in the window and do "sun tea"). Don't add sugar or sweeteners. It's a lot like water, but with a different flavor.

Re: two suggestions

[contentlove.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I missed the tea/sucralose association thing. Do you think this might be less so if it were a non-sweet tea?

Re: two suggestions

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

1. That's a good idea.

2. That's what I was doing -- brewing up a bunch at once, bottling it up and refrigerating it, and then taking some with me to work each day. It was a good system... well, except for the part where I was poisoning myself with sucralose. But I can do it with some new flavors that I haven't had before.

Re: two suggestions

[contentlove.livejournal.com]

One more suggestion: heavily watered down apple juice, not the clear apple juice, but the opaque kind. You kind of get used to it, after which if you happen to drink a mouthful of unwatered juice it tastes unbelievably thick and sugary.

Re: two suggestions

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

Another good suggestion. Thanks!

Re: two suggestions

[alobar.livejournal.com]

If you have not already read it, here is a bit more on sucralose problems:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/alobar/1216820.html

[cowgrrl.livejournal.com]

Maybe adding a squeeze of lemon or lime would help you like the taste of water better? It's something I like...and would be happy to start buying lemons/limes for the household.

I saw that article too and it also claims low-glycemic diets are better that low-fat for people with problems like mine (high cholesterol etc) so maybe I should be eating more like you. I don't know what to believe any more ... it feels like nutritional "science" changes the "facts" as often as the weather changes in Boston!

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

I don't know what to believe any more ... it feels like nutritional "science" changes the "facts" as often as the weather changes in Boston!

Yeah. I think the problem is that many people react differently to food and they have no way to "normalize" for that. The shifting sands of diet science are why I don't recommend anything for anyone at this point, I only report on what works or doesn't work for me.

So, you could try it and see what happens.

[cowgrrl.livejournal.com]

I can try it but only to a degree -- I'm already so limited in what I can eat that I balk at additional restrictions. Plus there's no way I'm giving up corn! Or the occasional potato!

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

::nods:: I can understand how you feel.

Pretty new icon! :)

[brontosproximo.livejournal.com]

I've got a lot of suggestions.

The flavored seltzer waters can be quite refreshing and no carbs at all.

Yes, fruit juices are good for you, but a serving is miniscule and had tons of carbs (http://www.diabetesselfmanagement.com/pdfs/pdf_167.pdf). 7 or 8 ounces has around 30 grams of carbs. I dunno about you, but 8 ounces of juice is about two mouthfuls.

starfire91 likes to add 8 ounces of juice to 16 ounces of water or seltzer. Taste, not too sweet and still refreshing.

I've chosen sucralose or nothing. Regular juice doesn't fit in my diet, but then I've had no side effects from sucralose.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

The flavored seltzer waters can be quite refreshing and no carbs at all.

A lot of them have sucralose. All of the water drinks are off limits to me now.

I thought about watering down fruit juice, I could try that in a pinch.

Sucralose seems to be fine for most people. ::shrug::

[brontosproximo.livejournal.com]

No. Perrier has zero carbs, is yummy delicious and contains no sucralose.

Pelligrino too.

For the less elitist, Polar brand has several varieties of tasty selzter including plain, orange, lime and cranberry I think. There are NO sweeteners of any kind in these drinks. Zero carbs. And more refreshing on a hot day than anything, including lemonade or beer :)

[alobar.livejournal.com]

> Sucralose seems to be fine for most people.

Consider yourself one of the lucky ones. Those who show no immediate adverse reaction will probably wind up with kidney failure (among other things).

[alobar.livejournal.com]

> Sucralose seems to be fine for most people. ::shrug::

I believe your sucralose sensitivity makes you one of the lucky ones. Those who consume it with seemingly no bad side effects are setting themselves up for serious long-tern health effects.

[arcanum-dogma.livejournal.com]

the acids in seltzer eat your teeth as badly as soda will.

[brontosproximo.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I was commended by the dentist for making the switch.

Of course he makes a living off rotten teeth, so I suppose I should consider the source...

[alobar.livejournal.com]

My old densist relocaterd next to adonut shop so people would eat more sugar. I know of another densist who rented out space to a snowball stand. Dentists like to encourage people to be better customers.

[azaz-al.livejournal.com]

I personally am done with all diets or hard limit food restrictions. I'll just try to tend to eat better overall (like avoiding HFCS when possible)

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

Considering how unhappy you were when I saw you deal with Weight Watchers -- which is supposed to be the most reasonable of the diet programs out there -- I support your decision to go against food restrictions.

Good grief, compared to stuff I've read about sucralose and aspartame, high-fructose corn syrup seems almost benign in comparison.

[azaz-al.livejournal.com]

I have never had a problem with either of the artifical sweeteners. But some people really do.
I do think HFCS contributes greatly to American obesity though - there isn't anywhere else it is so routinely put into foods, and the beginning of the big upswing in weight gain correlates exactly to that becoming a popular sweetener.

[azaz-al.livejournal.com]

But anyway - yeah, food restrictions make me miserable. I am getting overly aggravated lately with the way people talk about it - carbs, protein, fiber, etc. - I just call it FOOD :P And then I have supper.
All this regimented measuring, analysis, etc., for me became an obsession so bad it was much worse than being a bit rounded.

Haven't felt well enough until now to comment...

[trannyboi-lb.livejournal.com]

Hi Hon,

I hope you don't mind my little two cents being added to your world. *smile* Honestly, I have had some problems with sucralose and have known of other people with similar issues. I talked with MiLady about it the other night in fact and have mentioned some on my LJ about it. I am starting to feel much better now that I have eliminated it from my diet again. Yet, I see that finding drinks without it or aspartame which I have a REAL bad problem with is difficult. I--like you--have a hard time with the "taste" of water. I do not like plain water. I will let you know if I find anything that is flavored without sucralose or aspartame in it.
As for one of the commenters suggesting V-8 juice, I have to say that as much as I love the stuff, it is HIGH in sodium and therefore unhealthy in it's own right. One suggestion might be to try and find a used or inexpensive juicer say on Ebay and use that to make your own juice.
As for your diet issues, I honestly have so screwed up my system since having a gastric bypass that I really don't know how to help you. My body CRAVES two things, protein and carbs. Mostly I am eating one meal a day when I am here in IL. When I am with MiLady I try to eat better and join her in meals but usually end up skipping breakfast and having some kind of lunch and then dinner with her. Anyway, I am going to tell you something that worked for me before the gastric bypass. (If you want my gastric bypass story as in how I got there and why now I wish I had never done it, I will be more than GLAD to share it with you.) I listen to my system and feed it what it is asking for. Therefore if I am craving Cottage Cheese that is what I eat until the craving disappears. I have less options in following that now as protein is expensive and even protein powders can cost. Anyway, I am just offering up the suggestion. I lose more weight when I listen to the voice of my body.
Okay, I will quit bending your ear for now.
Talk to you soon, I hope.
Lakota Bluefeather

Re: Haven't felt well enough until now to comment...

[contentlove.livejournal.com]

That's a very good point about the sodium. I just had a look at the bottle and you're absolutely right.

Re: Haven't felt well enough until now to comment...

[trannyboi-lb.livejournal.com]

It is something I looked at a while back. I truly love the stuff and the low sodium version is not as tasty. So, I do without.

LB

Re: Haven't felt well enough until now to comment...

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

I didn't notice any obvious problems with aspartame, other than maybe it gives me headaches more frequently. (Although it's hard for me to attribute any single factor in that, since I have several clear triggers -- weather, pollen allergies, and stress, not to mention possible food allergy triggers too.) Even so, what I've read about it having neurological effects in some people scares me.

I don't generally have problem finding food I like to eat. Sometimes I feel a little restricted, especially in convenience stores and restaurants. Also many foods promoted as "low carb alternatives" are problematic; I've seen them made out of rice or corn, or with starches snuck in. In that same vein, at a restaurant the other day, I ordered a sandwich wrap which was billed as low carb, but they served it with potato chips!

My conclusion is that since the body is not fooled by artificial substitutes, there seems to be no way to "cheat," really; the real thing satisfies the body's needs.

Re: Haven't felt well enough until now to comment...

[trannyboi-lb.livejournal.com]

Aspartame makes my gums bleed. I look like a vampire that just got done with a good feed not a pretty sight. Besides bleeding gums is NOT healthy in too many ways.
I give my body what it asks for even unhealthy things in moderation as long as I am "craving" it. I try not to overdo though I have my moments, especially when my friend Fred comes for his monthly visit. Other than that I try to eat as healthy as my income will allow.
Well, I am gonna go for now. Thanks for the reply to my comment.

LB

Re: Haven't felt well enough until now to comment...

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

Aspartame has had neurological effects in people? Could you direct me to any links?

Re: Haven't felt well enough until now to comment...

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

alobar has been tracking this info for a long time. Some of the claims I've seen about aspartame appear to be bogus, but some people are allergic and there is a risk to phenlyketonurics -- people who cannot metabolize phenylalanine. For them, aspartame can cause a host of problems, including neurological damage.

See http://www.ess.sunysb.edu/tracy/whatis.html

Re: Haven't felt well enough until now to comment...

[alobar.livejournal.com]

Below is the full list of adverse reactions to aspartame. Remember this list is from the FDA, not some kook site. http://www.dorway.com/badnews.html#symptoms
Abdominal Pain
Anxiety attacks
arthritis
asthma
Asthmatic Reactions
Bloating, Edema (Fluid Retention)
Blood Sugar Control Problems (Hypoglycemia or Hyperglycemia)
Brain Cancer (Pre-approval studies in animals)
Breathing difficulties
burning eyes or throat
Burning Urination
can't think straight
Chest Pains
chronic cough
Chronic Fatigue
Confusion
Death
Depression
Diarrhea
Dizziness
Excessive Thirst or Hunger
fatigue
feel unreal
flushing of face
Hair Loss (Baldness) or Thinning of Hair
Headaches/Migraines dizziness
Hearing Loss
Heart palpitations
Hives (Urticaria)
Hypertension (High Blood Pressure)
Impotency and Sexual Problems
inability to concentrate
Infection Susceptibility
Insomnia
Irritability
Itching
Joint Pains
laryngitis
"like thinking in a fog"
Marked Personality Changes
Memory loss
Menstrual Problems or Changes
Migraines and Severe Headaches (Trigger or Cause From Chronic Intake)
Muscle spasms
Nausea or Vomiting
Numbness or Tingling of Extremities
Other Allergic-Like Reactions
Panic Attacks
Phobias
poor memory
Rapid Heart Beat
Rashes
Seizures and Convulsions
Slurring of Speech
Swallowing Pain
Tachycardia
Tremors
Tinnitus
Vertigo
Vision Loss
Weight gain

Aspartame Disease Mimics Symptoms or Worsens the Following Diseases

Fibromyalgia
Arthritis
Multiple Sclerosis (MS)
Parkinson's Disease
Lupus
Multiple Chemical Sensitivities (MCS)
Diabetes and Diabetic Complications
Epilepsy
Alzheimer's Disease
Birth Defects
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
Lymphoma
Lyme Disease
Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD)
Panic Disorder
Depression and other Psychological Disorders

[arcanum-dogma.livejournal.com]

if you have to have sweet: gatorade is okay but it ain't great. try filtering your water - the last three places i've lived have had horrible-tasting water. also, a weak mint tea (infusion for the ARs) is somewhat sweet.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm trying to avoid highly-glycemic sugars like sucrose and glucose. When I've been exerting myself I will drink gatorade.

I mostly drink filtered water already. I find that making it ice cold helps to make it more palatable. The drinking water in this area isn't nearly as bad-tasting as it was in Florida or New Orleans.

I like mint tea, I'll give that a try.

[arcanum-dogma.livejournal.com]

mint tea is one of the greatest things known to humankind. it's one of a few things that help with my headaches and stomach issues.

[alobar.livejournal.com]

If you have the kind of job which allows such expenses, I highly recommend reverse osmosis water. Much better than the simple water filters (e.g., britta filter) for makeing really clean good tasting water. You want to remove all chlorine & fluorine.

[igferatu.livejournal.com]

What we do is fill several gallons of uber-purified drinking water at the market every week and have the bottles sitting out in strategic places around the house. We also keep club soda and pomegranate juice in the fridge and mix the juice down maybe 1:5 with the club soda and ice. Besides that we try to eat plenty of fresh fruit, avoid desserts and sweet/salty snacks.

[novapsyche.livejournal.com]

I'm going through a lot of what you are, except I'm not too worried about sugar. (The vast majority of my sugar intake was through coffee, and cutting that out of my diet has reduced that significantly.)

I drink a lot of Fuze. Have you heard of those? They're pretty tasty, and they're fortified. Right now I'm drinking their Mixed Berry (very tasty), which has calcium and Vitamins A, C, E, B3, B5, B6 and B12. Different flavors have different ingredients.

They do have sucralose, so maybe you'll have to disregard everything I've just said. But they do have a good flavor and are not caffeinated.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

If they have sucralose I can't even consider it.

[chimpstop.livejournal.com]

What kind of water are you drinking? Tap? The Tap water here has gone such a long way to see us that it tastes pretty awful. Filtered it's OK.
An X of mine got me into drinking Crystal Gyser's water for a while there, especially since liter bottles were available at Trader Joe's for 49 cents...I'd often by a case!
Storm got me into reusing Arrowhead Spring Water Bottles by going to a Water Station once a week and getting gallons from 15 to 25 cents. Filtered water.

I use filtered water as the base-liquid in my smoothies, having originally used fruit juices. I use the actual juice from one of the fruits I use (eiher berries or mangos usually) as part of the process now, cutting the actual cost of the smoothie somewhat.

My new VICE is bottled water from various parts of the world. I like water from Hawai'i, Fiji, and New Zealand. If you normally budget carry cash for sodas or teas a bottle of one of these will cost about as much and be better for you.

If I am feeling somewhat adventurous there are certain springs in our local mountains I have access to, and will go fetch as much water as I can carry.

Here at work I keep a cup of water going thru the day. We get Sodas here for 25 cents, bottled water for 55 cents (you'd think HR, always wanting to promote good health, would have that switched around)

Chewing raw almonds I just killed my water cup! Time to refill!

[liminalia.livejournal.com]

Read your labels carefully on those bottles of water. Have you seen Penn & Teller's Bullshit's episode on bottled water? Many brands with names like Yosemite are from nowhere near Yosemite. Some are even from municipal taps. Dasani and Aquafina are.

[chimpstop.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, I've seen the Yosemite Bottling Plant, in El Centro, California.

The Imports have addresses and contact numbers in their home countries.

[tyrsalvia.livejournal.com]

Add slices of fresh ginger to your water. It's tasty.

[dragonguyver.livejournal.com]

I'm really sorry you don't like water... I love the stuff. Aqua is life!

[alobar.livejournal.com]

When I cut out the carbs -- both simple and complex, I lost weight. I had to do it because of diabetes. I made the transition slowly. First the suagar, potatoes, rice, and bread went. Finally I have become convinced of my neeed to giove up fruit. I eat veggies &salads, so I am by no means carb free. But no corn, beans, beets, rice, of any fruit. I allow myself salad grwessings which contain 2 grams of sugar per serving.

Because of all the reading I have done, I am convinced that healthy fats have been demonized. Partly in ignorance, and partly as part of an insidious plot by people selling cheap carbs. I play *no* limit on healthy fats. A avoid the crap seed oils (canola, corn oil, etc.) I consume about a pound of butter and a pound of coconut oil a week. I eat meat twice a day. I am never hungery. I eat 4 small meals a day. And I have lost 80 pounds on this diet. I probably consume about 2400 calories a day.

Is there a high carb food you love? Pancakes, or waffles, for instance. You could eat just one. But it is real easy to eat 3 or even more, covered in sweet syrup. One has to exert dillegent self-control at each and every carb meal to limit how much one eats.

Now take a high protein high fat food. Porkchops, or a steak. Don't trim off the fat! It is really hard to pig-out on this type of food, unles you have deprived yourself of meat for a long time. Meat & fat are self-limiting. I eat, and get satisfied easily. Back when I was eating bread, if I got a fresh loaf of french bread still warm from the oven, I had to really restrain myself from eating the whole thing.

The problem with the "supposedly healthy" carbs (oatmeal, whole grain breads, etc.) is that they are carbs and us modern humans are very carb addicted. So when we eat the "healthy" carbs, it sets up cravings for the un-healthy carbs. If I eat some meat, or a salad, or even eat a pat of butter plain, it does not trigger cravings for the unhealthy foods.

[alobar.livejournal.com]

Have you seen the interview with Gary Taubs I put into my LJ recently? He is the guy who wrote "What If It's All Been a Big Fat Lie" which was originally printed in the NY Times. Below is a brief quote, plus the URL.

The underlying philosophy is this kind of Paleolithic diet theory. It's what we ate during the 2 million years that we were hunter-gatherers on this planet. The fact that we were hunter-gatherers for 2 million years suggests it was an extraordinarily successful evolutionary adaptation. The question is: What did we eat during these 2 million [years] when we left the jungle, the trees, went down into savanna and started surviving on whatever we could hunt or gather? That's the philosophy. The answer is, probably considerable meat, very low glycemic index, hard-to-digest roots and starches, and fruits and berries that look nothing at all like the beautiful Fuji applies you can buy at your local market now. Some carbohydrates, but whatever it was, it wasn't refined. It wasn't sugar. It wasn't flour. It wasn't easy to digest. That's my going theory. If this theory's right, the diet we evolved to eat is probably the correct diet.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/alobar/1206811.html

[alobar.livejournal.com]

Part of the problem is your sweet tooth. carbs -- any carbs, high or low glycemic -- make one crave sugar & sweet. So any diet which includes a lot of carbs will keep you craving the kind of carbs not good for you.

Sweet cravings can also be a sign that one has a problem with candida overgrowth, which almost endemic amongst people who eat a lot of carbs.

Fruit juice has a *lot* of fructose. One site recommnded cutting apple juice or grape juice. 1 part juice and 3 or 4 parts water. I think I would prefer plain water over diluted juice.

There is one self-limiting 0 carb sweetener that I am aware of. Stevia. Now stevia is available in several forms.
Ground up green leaves. That tastes utterly wretched.
In little packets to emulate sugar packets used in coffee. That stuff is made from refined (white) stevia, which is good, but they bulk it up with dextrose because stevia is so much sweeter than sugar. Eating dextrose kinda defeats the purpose of using a 0 carb sweetener.
Then there is liquid stevia. That shit is expensive!
And there is buying white stevia in bulk. Bulk white stevia seems expensive, but as one needs so damn little of it, the cost per serving is tiny.

There are two complications with white stevia.

One: the stuff is so fucking concentrated that it is waaaay too easy to over-do it. Best recommendation is to put one tsp of stevia in 3 TBSP of water in a dropper bottle, then use the dropper to dispense smeall amounts of stevia. When stored in the fridge, the water solution should last a long time without going funky. One dropperful is considered the normal amount for sweetening one small portion of food or drink.

Two: When used in small quantity, the taste is pretty good. When one uses more stevia, one begins to taste a bitter flavor. The sweeter you want things to taste, the more bitterness which accompanies the sweet.