(no subject)

[sophiaserpentia]

I've been accused, several times now, of deliberately closing off rational discourse on the subject of homophobia and transphobia. Once I was warned it was making me a monster, because I said that all Christians and all Bush supporters look like homophobes to me.

I know that's not fair. But it was already not fair before I ever wrote a word on this subject. It's not in my power to change the tone of discourse on this subject; that choice was taken away from me by the funeral picketers, anti-gay protest-march leaders, gay bashers, men who target transsexuals for sexual exploitation, the President of the United States, the Congress, the Pope, the heads of many major religious denominations, tract-hander-outers, street preachers with bullhorns and signs, door-to-door proselytizers, television, junk mail, Hollywood, newspapers, books, magazines, and webpages, all with the message that I am some kind of threat to the moral well being of society. Me, little old me, a threat. I personally have been shouted at, made fun of, physically intimidated, targeted for sexual violence, you name it; I have never done those things, yet I am the threat.

Anti-gay referenda are a particular slap in the face. What these referenda tell queer people, is that when allowed to show their views anonymously, the majority of people in this country really do hate us. If a majority of the people around you voted to promote hatred of you, how would you feel? You'd look at every person around you and think to yourself, this is probably one of the people who hates me.

Fear has conditioned me well. As I walk down the street, part of me is always looking out for the people around me who might take offense at my existence as a transsexual and decide to harass me. I don't know who those people are; I can't tell them to look at them. So there is a cognitive wash in my mind, such that I cannot help but see every Christian as a potential gay basher. Every time I see an emblem of Christianity, from a cross in front of a cathedral, to old ladies selling brownies to raise money for their church, I see the edifice of homophobia. I don't like it, but that's what I see. It's not what I decided to see, it's the conclusion my irrational survival systems came to.

You might think this makes me a horrible person, but this is not a view I'm promoting. It's a reaction I'm describing. And I've heard it from many queer friends: we feel beseiged.

To call me a monster for saying these things is like getting offended because a rabbit has nothing nice to say about any wolf, even if they are tame domesticated wolves.

Comments

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

Thank you. Yes, you may link to it.

[darkphoenixrisn.livejournal.com]

And I've heard it from many queer friends: we feel beseiged.

Exactly.

[cktraveler.livejournal.com]

You may be guilty of overgeneralizing to some extent (I know I do) but, as you say, you have more than enough reason to be paranoid.

At this point, I have nothing to say to anyone who claims that my basic human rights are a fit topic for debate and argumentation -- or who calls me bigoted or closed-minded for saying that.

If a rich white Southerner walked up to a black man on a bus and demanded that he move to the back, I suppose the black man should stop, think about the issue, and come up with a logical and reasoned argument for why he shouldn't. Frankly, I think he should knock the guy's block off.

[herbalgrrl.livejournal.com]

Our reactions are conditioned for us to *survive*-- if one experiences a pattern of aggression from people under common hallmarks, it's natural & normal that one's first response to those hallmarks will be to go on the alert & defensive.
As long as you are aware of your response & responsibile in how you handle it, I wouldn't give yourself grief over it.
Let's be blunt-- there is a huge number of conservative religious people right now who feel *oppressed* by having to share the planet with us.

[akaiyume.livejournal.com]

Let's be blunt-- there is a huge number of conservative religious people right now who feel *oppressed* by having to share the planet with us.

That is the best way to put it, isn't it. We don't have to picket, yell, beat up people, etc. to be considered attacking them. All we have to do is walk down the street holding hands, wearing a pride t-shirt, or anything else that marks us as not-heterosexual in order to be seen as forcefully and actively 'threatening' their 'way of life.'

[rhonan.livejournal.com]

So, when you see every Christian as a homophobe, does that include queer Christians? 'Cause I'm feeling like Sammy Davis Jr. did when he heard that all blacks were anti-semitic.

[azaz-al.livejournal.com]

I have to honestly question why you stay in a religion that hates you, personally. I'm sorry if that's an offensive thing to say, but it is unimaginable to me why any gay person keeps supporting a church that hates them. I mean, really unimaginable. I won't step foot in a chuirch - being near them makes me physically ill because I know they are filled with people who hate me.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

I think if I knew someone was queer and Christian, I that I would not feel threatened by them.

I had to think about it, though.

After I wrote this post I took an afternoon nap, and before I nodded off I asked myself why I should be afraid of Christians, when the people who have queer-bashed me directly did not necessarily have Christian paraphernalia on them. And it's not as if Christians have a monopoly on homophobia; I read about what queer people go through in Muslim countries and know they have it even worse than I do.

It's something I will have to ponder, but I think it is a subconscious reaction to a non-verbal message being conveyed. The fact that so much of this is non-verbal makes it difficult for me to articulate beyond "this is what I feel, despite myself."

[badsede.livejournal.com]

know that's not fair. But it was already not fair before I ever wrote a word on this subject.

And it was less fair after you wrote those words on the subject. I think that is the reality you should confront. You do have the power to change the tone, but instead you decided to add your power to the list of people you criticise for making the tone what it is.

Rational discourse only ends when there is no one left who will engage in it. The fact that so many people no longer engage in rational discourse only means that they have withdrawn from rational discourse, not that it has ended. You have the choice to simply withdraw like them, or continue to make your voice heard to those who are still listening. That we are passionate or emotionally invested does not mean that we have relinquished the right to discuss a topic reasonably. It is a fallacy that we can only engage a topic rationally or emotionally.

It's not what I decided to see, it's the conclusion my irrational survival systems came to.

It is exactly our ability to be ruled by something other than instinct that makes us human. I understand that you feel besieged, but I cannot help but see this mentality as one of the things that is besieging you.

[azaz-al.livejournal.com]

You can't have a rational discourse when the other side declares its a war and begins shooting at you. It is an inverse of reality to tell someone who is defending themselves against such behavior that *they* are ending rational discourse. A man screaming at me with a megaphone with ten of his friends beside him and bulging veins on his head is not going to listen to rational discourse. An entire church, an entire collection of churches, an entire religion, standing together as one to declare my family fundamentally eviul and to enact legislation against us while waving crosses and holding signs that declare god hates us is not capable of rational discourse. I suppose you think people like us should just lie down and let ourselves be beaten and jailed and killed in order to meet your high moral standards.
I guess you're going to just have to be disappointed.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I'm not sure I can even visualize what rational discourse on this subject would look like. Let's try starting there.

Normally what happens (so it seems to me) at the start of bridge-building discourse, is that people on either side of a debate describe their feelings openly and honestly. Focusing on experiences is a way of making it possible for people on the other side to step into your shoes a bit and appeal to one another's common humanity.

The problem here is that the above is an open and honest description of my experiences and feelings. It's not a position I'm advocating; it's not the way I want things to be; it's what things look like from my end.

The only thing I guess I can do, then, is perhaps offer a sanitized version of my feelings and experiences. Is that in my interest? You wouldn't feel pushed away; but you would not be exposed to the true depth and breadth of my terror. You'd still be willing to listen and talk; but the talking would not deal with the realities, and I would gain nothing from it; until we can really make the majority feel in their gut why this has to stop, it's going to continue.

[azaz-al.livejournal.com]

It really doesn't matter what you say - it is all too common for abusers and their enablers to blame the victim. There is nothing you can say to justify yourself to people who believe, as these supposed "friends" do who make these obnoxious comments to you, that it is fundamentally evil for you to be yourself. There is no rational discourse possible with someone holding a "God hates fags" sign - nor is any rational discourse possible with those who excuse such behavior either explicitly or complicitly. THESE PEOPLE ARE MADMEN BENT ON YOUR DESTRUCTION. I'm afraid anyone who thinks you should keep talking yourself blue in the face to people who aren't going to listen to you (or who will listen to you but then just repeat the same thing to you when you are done which is "But homosexuality is wroooong!") is a fool if they think you can change anything by doing so. They have declared our existence and our refusal to apologize for our existence a "culture war". Maybe we should start stockpiling weapons.

[touchyphiliac.livejournal.com]

I'm lucky enough to live in SF and other gay havens. Sometimes I think the whole world must be homosexual or at least bi with a 20% population of trannies.

I've appreciated your last several entries, although I've had nothing to contribute due to the fact that I feel totally safe being gay. Part of my privilege also lies in my ability to pass for straight with no piercings, completed tattoos, or other characteristics (besides than my know-it-all attitude) for which to be harassed.

It's a bubble. Homophobia is something I just don't have to deal with. Both my bosses are gay, my office is gay-friendly although only 1/4 of us are homos (8 staff)... the only place I realize that the world is mostly straight is in my human sexuality class where they talk about oral sex as something you do if the man or the woman has a "dysfunction" like ED or vaginisimus. I never thought I'd be the kind of person who got irritated at my invisibility, but I thought it was an atrocity to treat cunnilingus like that!

I'll stop now. I don't want to make light of your very real frustration and pain.

xoxoxoxoxo

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

I'm glad, actually, that you can live in a way such that you do not know what I'm feeling.

I live in New England, which is this country's other small bubble of sanity for queer people. Even here, though, there is a lot to do, especially regarding transgender safety. While daily life is not so harried here for queer people as it is in other parts of the country, it feels like the relative safety we have here is tenous and could evaporate.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

I should add, that I have only lived in New England for a year. Most of my experiences have occurred durling life in the South. Of all the places I've lived, including North Carolina, Texas, and Florida, I think the place where I experienced the worst gay bashing was actually New Orleans. Dallas/Fort Worth would be second.

[lordsluk.livejournal.com]

hey its your journal say what you want.

i am straight but I also see gay bashing all over the place.

[legolastn.livejournal.com]

I don't see that you've closed off rational discourse. Or else you would not have bothered to write this entry.

I agree with the point you make in this post. And yet I read through lady_babylon's comments and begin to see the problems with going too far down that road. So this begins to feel like yet another false dichotomy to me.

...

I also keep wondering...if we're all really so upset, besieged, pissed off, pissed on, whatever... Where are the street protests? Where are the hunger strikes? The die-ins? Where are the picketers at the Pope's funeral?

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

And yet I read through lady_babylon's comments and begin to see the problems with going too far down that road.

Do you mean the part about stockpiling weapons?


So this begins to feel like yet another false dichotomy to me.

How so?


I also keep wondering...if we're all really so upset, besieged, pissed off, pissed on, whatever... Where are the street protests? Where are the hunger strikes? The die-ins? Where are the picketers at the Pope's funeral?

Protesters were prevented by police from getting anywhere near the Pope's funeral.

Street protests, hunger strikes, die-ins... I think I see them coming soon. I think the critical mass of anger has only recently been reached. I'm only now beginning to hear queer people talk en masse about having finally lost their faith in human decency.

[stacymckenna.livejournal.com]

All the more reason I insist on parking my truck with my bumper sticker facing the street, have this license plate frame on my car, and wear my Tshirt in public arenas (though I have been woefully negligent about that of late). The fact that you have suffered enough to generate such an immediate connection/reaction between Christianity and homo/transphobias is appalling and offensive to me. I wish I could do more to help prevent such feelings of persecution...

[alobar.livejournal.com]

> You might think this makes me a horrible person

From my perspective, there are those who seek to lick the boots of the oppressor in the hopes of getting preferential treatment, and those who seek to polarize. I feel *much* more comfortable around those who seek to polarize, the bring the oppressions into sharp focus, and to attempt to move the lumpen to actually use their consciences.

For the most part, I see Christianity as a religion designed to eep slaves in their place, and to allow people to feel superior to those not in that slave religion. That said, I have met Christians I have come to respect (Philip & Daniel Berrigan, are two examples). I am not gay. But I have observed religios repression my entire life. While that oprerssion has not impacted me the way it impacts gay people, the anti-drug laws, the anti-sex laws, the prohibitions against multiple marriages -- have all impacted me.

One of the principles upon which I was reared is that the majority has no right to tyranize the minority. But I see that tyranization all the time.

For instance: much of the so-called AIDS research is totally spurious, and is just an excuse to preach anti-sexuality.

[akaiyume.livejournal.com]

The whacked-out Christian right is actually against any and all things that could make sex safer. Have you seen the recent idiocy? The Family Research Council is actually having a hissy fit over the fact that a vaccine agains HPV (a cause of cervical cancer in women) is being developed. They are afraid that if girls are vaccinated then they will - and I quote - "see it as a licence to engage in premarital sex" even though HPV is the least know of all the sexually transmitted viruses. What the pro-liar FRC is saying, in essence, is that if someone is going to have sex, they deserve cancer.

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health/mg18624954.500

[velitu.livejournal.com]

i haven't got the strength to argue as articulately as you at this phase in my life. i have before though and no doubt i will again. but right now i am tired. exhausted even. thank you for carrying on and saying what i would if i could.

*hides back under safety of doona*

[c3fyn.livejournal.com]

Quite right. And for all those alleged "liberal" Christians (often hiding behind the emptiness of "hate the sin love the sinner rhetoric") who allege that this is not real Christianity, I must give them a list, partial though it may be:

Missouri Synod (Lutheran), Roman Catholic Church, Southern Baptist Convention, United, Southern, and American Methodists, American Baptists, Evangelical Lutheran Conference of America, nearly any Pentecostal or Charismatic denomination, etc etc ad nauseum.

Have to side with Isaac Bonewits on this one--if the majority were tolerant, I'd cut them some slack, but this is clearly not the case, and their "more" tolerant brethren don't seem to be committed enough to making a dent.

[c3fyn.livejournal.com]

And a link to the specific Bonewits article (which, knowing you, you have already read):

http://www.neopagan.net/Anti-Christianity.html

And, as always, in agreement with lady_babalon, I have to say that I question the continuing devotion of anyone to a religion which they must largely gut in order to make it palatable to them. The body of Christian scriptures (OT and NT) certainly give, on the whole, plenty of ammo to the homophobe/sensuaphobe, and a very much smaller available amount for truly loosey-goosey, Jesus-means-love interpretation.

Today's "I Drew This" seemed oddly approrpiate.

[susiebeeca.livejournal.com]

[alobar.livejournal.com]

This is not quite on topic, but I thought you would be interested:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-mcgough18apr18,0,131393.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions