(no subject)

[sophiaserpentia]

Someone asked me recently why I referred to the gallae as "quasi-transsexual" instead of just "transsexual." I can't find the comment now, so I'm replying here.

I used the term because I'm not sure if I'm entirely comfortable using modern terms to refer to ancient forms of sexual or gender variance. Ancient Greek homosexuality, for example, was of an entirely different nature than modern experience. The modern term "transsexual" is primarily medical and technical in meaning.

OTOH, I believe there must be a strong affinity between the gallae and modern transsexuals -- so perhaps I am being overly cautious.

Comments

[cktraveler.livejournal.com]

How would you define Sohma Yuki from Fruits Basket?

(If you're not familiar with Furuba, -- it's an anime magical-romance series with a very strong subtext. While I believe it was intended to be a metaphor for homosexuality, parts of the show only make sense if we take Yuki's transformative curse as being a stronger variance than that.)

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

I'm not familiar with that at all, sorry.

[cktraveler.livejournal.com]

If we're ever in the same place I'll run the videos or manga by you ... it's an elucidating study.

The main idea is that centuries ago the Sohma family was placed under a curse: whenever they come into contact with a member of the opposite sex who isn't also a Sohma, they transform into the animals of the Chinese zodiac. The family keeps itself alive by arranging marriages between cousins, but for the most part they isolate themselves from the outside world.

The plotline revolves around the relationship between Sohma Yuki, who is the Mouse of the zodiac, and a socially outcast girl named Honda Tohru who comes to live with the Sohmas after the death of her family. Gender fluidity is one of the primary themes of the series, and the lifestyle changes Yuki has to make to preserve his secret are painfully familiar.

[azaz-al.livejournal.com]

Well, as the gallae castrated themselves, thus performing the closest they could come to today's type of surgery, isn't it the same thing really?

[fraterfae.livejournal.com]

Without getting into the semantics of whether it is the 'same', the two phenomena are decidedly similar. Although, I can understand Sabrina's hesitation to equate the different practices.

To look at the gallae as 'male priestesses' implies a bit of dual sexuality. Were the gallae considered a third sex, like the berdiche (sp) of Nat. Amer. societies? Or were they considered priestesses first? Those would help clear up the question for me.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

Probably, but as I wrote to below, the gallae were seen (and saw themselves) differently in different places and times.

[beowulf1723.livejournal.com]

That was me commenting on this: http://www.livejournal.com/users/sophiaserpentia/498268.html

The reason I queried it was that it was from a TS that I first heard the comparison of transsexuals and the galli.

OTOH, your caution about using modern terms for ancient sexual practices is probably good. I know that there have been studies of sexual practice in Graeco-Roman times, but I haven't read any of them unless you count Arthur Evans' The Madness of Dionysos, which is mostly about gender-bending in Euripides The Bacchae and the cult of Dionysos. (This is not the Arthur Evans who excavated Knossos, BTW.)

But I notice that you use </>gallae rather than galli for the plural. Gallus is masculine (2nd declension) and I would ask if you use of the feminine plural form doesn't betray your acceptance that the gallae/i are feminine, i.e. transsexual. Or maybe I'm just being pedantic in following Latin grammatical usage.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

I used to have a copy of Evans's book The God of Ecstasy but it was stolen by roommates several years ago.

Many scholars are actively examining ancient records for indications of queer sexual practices. I applaud this, but I fear (from a relatively uninformed but cautious position) that some of these scholars might be a bit overzealous to demonstrate that ancient gender bending or same-sex love is the same as modern homosexuality or transsexualism.

As I mentioned above, Greek paederastia (which was heavily tinged with misogyny and male power structures) is a very different animal from modern gay male experience.

Similarly, the gallae were an element of Mediterranean culture for over a thousand years, and they represented different things at different times. In some places and times they lived fully as women and took male lovers and husbands. At other times and in other places they were seen in a more androgynous way and were basically male. Acceptance or non-acceptance of the gallae varied widely, too. There were periods of persecution and periods of acceptance.

Yeah, I know that use of "gallae" is linguistically imprecise. Transsexual or not, I see the gallae as being kindred to who and what I am, and I believe it is a sign of respect to their practice (and their sacrifices) to use "galla" and "gallae."

[beowulf1723.livejournal.com]

Many scholars are actively examining ancient records for indications of queer sexual practices. I applaud this, but I fear (from a relatively uninformed but cautious position) that some of these scholars might be a bit overzealous to demonstrate that ancient gender bending or same-sex love is the same as modern homosexuality or transsexualism

This is the problem I have with Evans' book. This was the first book I read which discussed sexuality as something than an gay-straight dualism. I found the gay rights bit at the end unnecessary and a real distraction. (I'm straight, BTW.)

Yeah, I know that use of "gallae" is linguistically imprecise. Transsexual or not, I see the gallae as being kindred to who and what I am, and I believe it is a sign of respect to their practice (and their sacrifices) to use "galla" and "gallae."


I have no problems with using galla, ae rather than the formal gallus, i for the reasons you stated, though there is a rather crass pun involved, as the base meaning of gallus is "cock." Probably originally a putdown term.