(no subject)

[sophiaserpentia]

"Eli, Eli, lmana sabachthani" are reported as words spoken by Jesus shortly before he died. This phrase apparently had great meaning to the early Christians, and was even used by some as a 'phrase of power' in Christian spellcasting (as demonstrated by several spell fragments presented in Meyer and Smith's Ancient Christian Magic).

The most common interpretation of this phrase is that it is a quote from Psalm 22. Noted scholar George Lamsa, an expert on the Aramaic language, has a different opinion.

On p. 103 of Idioms in the Bible Explained, and A Key to the Original Gospel, he writes,

It... seems probable that the later writers did not agree on its exact meaning when they translated [the sayings of Jesus] into Greek. This term even at present is only used by the Aramaic-speaking people in Assyria, the same language which the Galileans spoke at the time of our Lord. This phrase in Aramaic means, "My God, my God, for this I was kept" (this was my destiny -- I was born for this).

Jesus did not quote the Psalms. If He had He would have said these words in Hebrew instead of Aramaic, and if He had translated them from Hebrew He would have used the Aramaic word "nashatani," which means, "forsaken me," instead of the word "shabacktani," which in this case means, "kept me." ...

... These words... even today are used by Assyrians when they suffer and die unjustly. Instead of complaint and dissatisfaction, they leave everything to God. They believe that it is God's desire that they should pass through such experiences.

Comments

[heartwork.livejournal.com]

That's really interesting. I wish I could find some good books on translations from the Aramaic language that Jesus spoke. It seems that so much of the Bible has been misinterpreted. Is George Lamsa a good author to check into?

[manifestress.livejournal.com]

Fascinating - thank you!

[orionrising.livejournal.com]

That is such a haunting cry of Jesus. It's hard to put into words how it makes me feel. I just want to hug him, hold him and take away the pain. Sometimes I feel the same way and feel like I'm crying the same cry.

bias

[badsede.livejournal.com]

The mention of particular sources in this thread, Lamsa and Douglas-Klotz, highlights something that I think is very important when going about studies like this .. that ist the effect of bias. Everyone has bias, anyone who denies this is lying, either to themselves or to you. Since we cannot eliminate bias, the best we can do is recognize it, and I think that one of the ways to spot the good scholars is by how honest they are about their bias, which is often little more than their background or primary area of study.

For example, my background is in architecture. I understand history, art and even philosophy in terms of where they connect to architecture. These connections are a big deal to me because of how important architecture is to me and simply because of how much I know about architecture and its history; however, while the connection and insight may be of great imortance to me, the real connection and impact is usually far less strong.

Even with good scholars, I expect the same. Look at Crossan and cross-cultural anthropology, or Borg and reinterpretation of normalcy. The same I also expect of Lamsa and Douglas-Klotz. The Peschitta is a 5th c. translation of the Septuagint into Aramaic, but not the Aramaic of Jesus's time, but rather Late Aramaic which supplanted it around the year 200. Our enthusiasm for the insights given by a closer look at the Peschitta must be tempered by the fact that it is similar, but not the same language as Jesus, that it is a redaction of the Greek that we already have by an area of Christendom known for Nestorianism, Monophysitism and Adoptionism. Likewise, the insights of Douglas-Klotz must be considered in light of his background in a gnostic-leaning tradition of Islam.

Though it may seems otherwise, this is not meant to discredit these sources, merely to offer an observation on perspective. There is an old saying, when all you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail. We rarely find what is actually there, but rather .. we find what we are looking for.

[archanglrobriel.livejournal.com]

Wow.
Wow.
And then some.
Having just recently accepted certain elements of my destiny, all I can say is that this hit me like a bolt to the back of the head and I will be meditating on it tonight and in all probability for many years to come.

late to the thread...

[seraphina-prime.livejournal.com]

This is from a dear soul-sister of mine who is well versed in Sanskrit. She shares: In Ancient Sanskrit what he said was: Now I Immerse Myself in the Glory of Your Oneness.

Either version give me goose bumps and resonate well in me.