It is true that in much of the BDSM community we can find defenders of sexism. But in this respect they are no different than the rest of society, and while we should not be silent about sexism in BDSM, we also should perhaps consider that since people have been so deeply colonized by patriarchy, that it will take stages, steps, changes by degree, for human beings to learn how to relate to one another in any other way.
I think it is very important - especially to those involved who want an equal society - to observe which trends in BDSM are inherently sexists, and which may just mimic the forms of sexism and then to root out the actual forms of sexism. Personally I think most "controversial" or "radical" things are in and of themselves nuetral - perhaps with a freeing idealogy behind them, but highly subject to being taken over by and used to enforce (because the idea that they are radical is seen as an inherent property of the name of a thing, rather than how the thing is executed/ what is actually happening. You know, sort of like your ideas on what happens with religions and other movements, just these are things that move along different vectors.
On a harm to society level, I feel the question that must be asked is do women who are not into BDSM feel pressure to be more submissive than they would otherwise be because BDSM exists. And right now I feel this must be monitered very closely. Because while I don't feel that BDSM in and of itself is sexist (in fact that whole negotiating the terms thing I think is very empowering. Even if the want to be submissive comes from embedded societal notions, participating where consent is considered paramount and terms can be negotiated allows more exercise of freedom than a "you have no choice, you can't do this because it is a bad desire" type attidute) I think it is very, VERY rapidly being colonized by pressures used to undermine consent. I mean, where is the talk about the dom caring enough, controly the domly self enough and the situation enough to create an atmosphere where the sub wants to consent to more these days? Pretty much disappeared. Instead the sub-culture is moving into placing all the responsibilty for unfullfilling relationships (short of overt physical coercion) onto the sub (all that talk about "not being sub enough" to give the dom what he demands). And that is a perversion of the whole ideas of exchange and consent. At the same time BDSM is getting more popular. I think this is where the gateway principle comes in. Gateways go both ways. And if something becomes popular enough and if what is on the "radical" side of the gateway can be held up as an ideal or threat to modify the behavior of "mundane" relationships- then perhaps something can be termed bad for women in general. Porn might be a good example of where something like this has taken place to such an extent that what good it could potentially do is heavily outweighed by the harm it causes.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2007-01-26 10:59 am (UTC)I think it is very important - especially to those involved who want an equal society - to observe which trends in BDSM are inherently sexists, and which may just mimic the forms of sexism and then to root out the actual forms of sexism. Personally I think most "controversial" or "radical" things are in and of themselves nuetral - perhaps with a freeing idealogy behind them, but highly subject to being taken over by and used to enforce (because the idea that they are radical is seen as an inherent property of the name of a thing, rather than how the thing is executed/ what is actually happening. You know, sort of like your ideas on what happens with religions and other movements, just these are things that move along different vectors.
On a harm to society level, I feel the question that must be asked is do women who are not into BDSM feel pressure to be more submissive than they would otherwise be because BDSM exists. And right now I feel this must be monitered very closely. Because while I don't feel that BDSM in and of itself is sexist (in fact that whole negotiating the terms thing I think is very empowering. Even if the want to be submissive comes from embedded societal notions, participating where consent is considered paramount and terms can be negotiated allows more exercise of freedom than a "you have no choice, you can't do this because it is a bad desire" type attidute) I think it is very, VERY rapidly being colonized by pressures used to undermine consent. I mean, where is the talk about the dom caring enough, controly the domly self enough and the situation enough to create an atmosphere where the sub wants to consent to more these days? Pretty much disappeared. Instead the sub-culture is moving into placing all the responsibilty for unfullfilling relationships (short of overt physical coercion) onto the sub (all that talk about "not being sub enough" to give the dom what he demands). And that is a perversion of the whole ideas of exchange and consent. At the same time BDSM is getting more popular. I think this is where the gateway principle comes in. Gateways go both ways. And if something becomes popular enough and if what is on the "radical" side of the gateway can be held up as an ideal or threat to modify the behavior of "mundane" relationships- then perhaps something can be termed bad for women in general. Porn might be a good example of where something like this has taken place to such an extent that what good it could potentially do is heavily outweighed by the harm it causes.