Hi..back and so on... hello! how did Austin work out as to future eetc? I missed some posts...
this will be a reactive response but as always not to the poster, the post is interesting indeed, but with a little exasperation at the fellow who is subject and that too less personally than as exemplar of a type.
My problem with Bishop Spong and there are in the Anglican Churches rather many of this sort, no doubt in others as well but it is a particular style...a little that of the university lecturer who wishes to hold the attention of his students by making broad statments, seemingly a bit iconoclastic, which will hold the attention of his students... well my problem with him is that he is therefore always writing as an ideologue, reducing complex questions to simple answers on the side he wishes to stress to get a rise out of other faculty members and appreciation from a set of students who will cheer him on... or so it seems to me. Here the whole thrust is to say that the Gospels are Jewish books(Im not sure actually it is quite certain that there may not be Greek language originals, though this would be not so undermining of his point) and so Midrashic and so not historically accurate and so the students do not need to think much of what is there actually happened...However turned around another way the Jews would seem to be, in a sense more than the Greeks, the originators of history(see Oscar Cullman's Christ and Time for the small point I am making here), and the Gospels at rather many points appear circumstantial and clear and direct in a remarkably, at moments almost anachronistcally modern way, historical dont they? It is not really a choice of historical or not is it? every historic event has multiple levels of meaning... well this slight aniamadversion but the post is interesting and I should think repreesentative of a way of doing talk about relgion down to the attention getting "God Presence" substituted for the English "Presence of God" or "Divine Presence".
the most interesting red sea parallel is perhaps in John , chapter 6 or 7 slips mind, where the crossing of lake seems to be center of the chiastic(ie 1=7,2=6, 3=5 and 4 at center) structure of seven signs as parallel to Red Sea...
Of this type I am imagining, earlier examples showed another side to the thing...that it is really partly show like patches on a sports jacket in university lecutrers .... J Robinson of Honest to God later wrote a learned book to the effect that John, the most metaphysical if you will, was earler in date than the other three and was by the son of Zebedee himself... so here he turns the iconoclatic impulse against the dominant academic tendency and alines with Biblical conservatives...
On that question I would think Dodd's "Fourth Gospel" to have a sound mediating posiion, but Dodd did not have the iconoclastic lecturer psychology you see...
and then the Archbishop of York who years ago excitingly questioned the bodily resurrection has a new book, read reviews of in England, which conservatives find very satisfying but I forget on what grounds... but as before the contents are exciting and broad brush. +Seraphim.
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timeasmymeasure
history+ York and Robinson
Date: 2003-08-19 07:11 am (UTC)how did Austin work out as to future eetc?
I missed some posts...
this will be a reactive response but as always
not to the poster, the post is interesting indeed,
but with a little exasperation at the fellow
who is subject and that too less personally
than as exemplar of a type.
My problem with Bishop Spong and there
are in the Anglican Churches rather many
of this sort, no doubt in others as well
but it is a particular style...a little that
of the university lecturer who wishes to hold
the attention of his students by making broad
statments, seemingly a bit iconoclastic, which
will hold the attention of his students... well
my problem with him is that he is therefore
always writing as an ideologue, reducing complex
questions to simple answers on the side he wishes
to stress to get a rise out of other faculty members
and appreciation from a set of students who will
cheer him on...
or so it seems to me. Here the whole thrust is to
say that the Gospels are Jewish books(Im not sure
actually it is quite certain that there may not
be Greek language originals, though this would be
not so undermining of his point) and so Midrashic
and so not historically accurate and so the
students do not need to think much of what is there
actually happened...However turned around another
way the Jews would seem to be, in a sense more
than the Greeks, the originators of history(see
Oscar Cullman's Christ and Time for the small point
I am making here), and the Gospels at rather many
points appear circumstantial and clear and direct
in a remarkably, at moments almost anachronistcally
modern way, historical dont they? It is not really
a choice of historical or not is it? every historic event
has multiple levels of meaning...
well this slight aniamadversion but the post is
interesting and I should think repreesentative of a
way of doing talk about relgion down to the attention
getting "God Presence" substituted for the English
"Presence of God" or "Divine Presence".
the most interesting red sea parallel is perhaps in
John , chapter 6 or 7 slips mind, where the crossing
of lake seems to be center of the chiastic(ie 1=7,2=6,
3=5 and 4 at center) structure of seven
signs as parallel to Red Sea...
Of this type I am imagining, earlier examples showed
another side to the thing...that it is really partly
show like patches on a sports jacket in university lecutrers
.... J Robinson of Honest to God later wrote a learned
book to the effect that John, the most metaphysical if you
will, was earler in date than the other three and was
by the son of Zebedee himself...
so here he turns the iconoclatic impulse against the
dominant academic tendency and alines with Biblical conservatives...
On that question I would think Dodd's "Fourth Gospel" to
have a sound mediating posiion, but Dodd did not have
the iconoclastic lecturer psychology you see...
and then the Archbishop of York who years ago excitingly
questioned the bodily resurrection has a new book, read
reviews of in England, which conservatives find very
satisfying but I forget on what grounds... but as before
the contents are exciting and broad brush.
+Seraphim.