thrice-male and thrice-great

[sophiaserpentia]

The term "thrice-male" occurs in at least three of the Sethian Nag Hammadi texts, see the search here for details.

Similarly, the term "thrice-great" is a translation of Trismegistus, an honorific used to relate to Hermes of the Hermetic tradition.

Does anyone know the significance of these terms? I mean, why thrice and not four times, or twelve times, or something else? Or are they just ancient ways of saying "double-plus good"?

Edit. It seems important for some reason to mention that this is on my mind because I woke this morning from dreaming about meeting someone who was, uh, graphically "thrice-male." I don't remember much more than that (and, gulp, might not say anything even if if I did).

Comments

[delascabezas.livejournal.com]

The reference to "thrice-male" reflects the chauvinistic bias that occurs even in Hellenistic Gnosticism; "male" in this context meaning "spirit" or purity (note also "Father" as the term for the Absolute; a term popular not only in Christianity, but in the Platonism that proceeded it as well; although the translation "Parent" would also be valid). "Thrice" indicates greatness, or supremety, as per the sacred roots of the number three, and the Hellenistic roots of the sacred mystery of the triangle. Gnostic jargon, "male" indicates membership in the incorruptible realm, thus even Barbelo is described as "male".

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

the Hellenistic roots of the sacred mystery of the triangle.

Could you elaborate on that please, or refer me to where I might learn more about that?


Gnostic jargon, "male" indicates membership in the incorruptible realm, thus even Barbelo is described as "male".

That is how the idea cashes out in Gnosticism, but I've seen this terminology in general Christian literature of the early centuries. Does it go beyond that? Or is it a specifically Christian (or perhaps Hellenistic) use?

hmm

[delascabezas.livejournal.com]

read the rest of this thread, and it looks like you found some good resources yourself - the sacred triangle and the pythagorean cult had a lot of influence on greek thought, which, in turn, linguistically and culturally influenced the writings you are reading. let me know if you want any more resources on greek number cults, particularly tied to triangles (which is the symbolic representation of a three, for obvious reasons).

[ulbh.livejournal.com]

"The reference to "thrice-male" reflects the chauvinistic bias that occurs even in Hellenistic Gnosticism; "male" in this context meaning "spirit" or purity …"

This reminds me of a story about the sex bias in traditional Buddhism, that says that only men can achieve enlightenment. Sharon Salzberg is an American Theravada Buddhist teacher, author of several books. She relates that when she was studying in Thailand (I think), she reached a point where her teacher included her in a regular council meeting of senior students. Some of the local monks raised a fuss about her being there with the wrong kind of plumbing. The teacher calmed them down by saying, "It's OK, she will be a man in her next life."

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

Are you familiar with the somewhat infamous Logion 114 of the Gospel of Thomas? It is very similar:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/sophiaserpentia/45210.html

[ulbh.livejournal.com]

I had read that ages ago, yes. Here's something a bit different and much older:

"To make a man into a woman, and a woman into a man, is yours, O Inanna."

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

Hmm. What is that from? I'm *very* intrigued.

[ulbh.livejournal.com]

It's from one of the Sumerian Hymns to Inanna -- I'll have to check the exact reference.

[aerope.livejournal.com]

I don't actually know anything about the terms you're asking, but in fairy tales and mythology things frequently have to be said or done 3 times to achieve completion.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

This seems like a thought worth poking at. I wonder if there is something innate, or some kind of instinct, that draws us to repeating things threefold?

[aerope.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure. I suspect it's a cultural thing, albeit extremely well spread and ingrained in the West. I read a story at some point about some Native Americans and settlers having problems doing construction because the settlers would yell, "One...two...three!" and haul, and the Native Americans would just stand there because for them, four was the number with symbolic significance (something to do with the geometry of squares, four directions, etc.)

[azaz-al.livejournal.com]

I'd love hearing more about this ;)

[sable-twilight.livejournal.com]

so would I. but then I'm a perv. and now can't help but have some henti like scene running through my mind...

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

Sorry. I draw the line at writing Gnostic slash-fic. ::grin::

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I did a quick search and found this here:

"Two, the dyad, is expressed in the figure of the vesica piscis and is the power of all duality, contrast, and manyness--for example, male/female, heaven/earth, left/right.

"Three, the triad, introduces a mean between the two extremes, the power to bring order and harmony to manyness. In the Pythagorean tradition, the soul is the mean that unites the mortal and immortal and binds them into a whole. In geometry, the triangle is born from the vesica piscis as the first plane figure with its three equal lines and angles."

It also occurs to me, reading this, that adding a third point to a line established by two points creates a ratio, and ratio is central to the Pythagorean (and indeed Hellenic) way of examining the world.

Re: Thought this quote might be apropriate ...

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

Appropriate, indeed. Thank you!

Re: Thought this quote might be apropriate ...

[akaiyume.livejournal.com]

Wonder if the "thrice male" concept arose out from views of gender duality and sexual politics. Because the bio-woman form comes naturally equipped with three modes for penetrative typw intercourse.

[brontosproximo.livejournal.com]

Great.

After reading this post, I have Lionel Ritchie stuck in my brain...


You're once, twice, three times a male

(or something like that)

[liminalia.livejournal.com]

And now, thanks to you, I have Eddy Murphy as Buckwheat stuck in my head.
"Unce, tice, fee times a mady...."

[brontosproximo.livejournal.com]

glad to share the lurve :)

[anosognosia.livejournal.com]

FWIW, 'thrice-great' is an abbreviation of the traditional invocation: "the greatest and the greatest god, great Hermes."

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

Well, that's a lot less fun, but it makes sense.

Do you think something similar might apply for the phrase "thrice-male"?

[anosognosia.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure. My guess would be that understanding this as an emphasis, numerological or not, is reasonable but not the whole story. For the rest of the story, my first suspicion would be that a trinitarian remark is being made here: that the 'thrice' refers to some constellation like the Father, Son, and Spirit (or perhaps the Primal Man). The 'maleness' here might also be an allusion to the alleged 'active' procreative function of a Father -- the Son is a Father in this sense, as is the Primal Man. Expressions like "a Father from a Father" to this effect are somewhere in the Apocryphon of John. We could not say, I think "a Father from a Father from a Father" since this describes a sequence rather than a trinity; so we'd be forced to use an expression like 'thrice-male' to describe such a thing.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

Yes, I thought it might be a reflection of the Christian trinity, which begs the question (or, rather, refers to a bigger question): why a Trinity? I suspect this is a Hellenistic influence, since the Trinity was a relatively late innovation in Christian doctrine.

[anosognosia.livejournal.com]

Do you mean 'why a Trinity?' in [orthodox] Christianity, or why here?

I agree that this is a generally Hellenistic argument, following Trinitarian-like thought on the One, Nous, and Logos. Although I think it's very hard to distinguish Jew from Greek from Christian in this context, as they're all so highly interwoven (for instance, a major point for Greek thought entering Christianity is Philo the Jew) and so mutually influential (the Neoplatonic development of these topics was at its peak at the same time as the evolution of Christian Trinitarianism).

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

I mean, "why a Trinity" as opposed to a Duo, or a Quaternion, etc.

[anosognosia.livejournal.com]

Well, I would say it's because there really are three things here, so three is the number people get when they go and count them.

[chimpstop.livejournal.com]

"Edit. It seems important for some reason to mention that this is on my mind because I woke this morning from dreaming about meeting someone who was, uh, graphically "thrice-male." I don't remember much more than that (and, gulp, might not say anything even if if I did). "

The shameless one with the bonobo sensibilites HAS to ask:

Was that 3 times normal size?

Or did he have three of them?

There's an olde Phillip Jose Farmer Story about Jesus and Satan on a Dude Ranch in the Not So Wild West, and like most of Phil's stories there's loads of sexual content...and it is discovered that Jesus and Satan are both Doubly' Endowed...and I don't mean Size.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

Three of them.

[chimpstop.livejournal.com]

The Mind Boggles.