sophiaserpentia | (no subject)

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An "idle thought" inspired by the conversion on my recent entries about pleasure restriction.

Human civilization is only possible because we are predators.

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Not so...
Civilization is possible because human being are social, tool using animals. Cooperation is vital to the survival of humans. If humans did not have a strong inclination to cooperation, most of them would never put up with the crap they do.
This is the trouble with extremely individualistic philosophies - it is nearly impossible for a human to live well or long without the help of other humans. Even hermits come out to trade or buy human made goods occasionally.
But because we are predators, we have a strong inclination towards violence or agression as well. In order to assure our survival, societies spring up which provide enforced guidelines of what type of agressive behavior is allowed, towards whom, and at what times.

I agree with you. I often wonder what civilization would be like if it had come about in a species of herbavores rather than in humans.

That's an important part of it, but IMO, being social, tool-using, meme-spreading animals is a sufficient condition for civilization but not a necessary one. IMO the predatory outlook is the necessary condition.

I could turn out to be wrong, of course; this is a matter I'm still investigating. But as civilization everywhere on the globe has been extremely stratified, racist, abusive of children, restrictive of women -- with only modern culture as an exception -- the only view that makes sense is to consider stratification to be inevitable -- until we learn how to supercede it.

OIC - are you talking about civilization as opposed to society?

Yes.

OIC
I was confusing my terns then. SO perhaps you are right.
I reserve the right to argue with you at any time and about things which are completely ridiculous though because I'm just an annoying gf that way! :P

I really hate it when I confuse my terns. Usually I confuse them with albatrosses but sometimes I even confuse them with owls!

's okay. I've told you, I find argument to be stimulating. :-D

Should I tie you up and argue with you sometime then? Oh wait, you didn't read the email I sent you yet, did you...

Checking...

::reads email::

Ooh!

Answering...

errata -- when I say that modern society is an "exception" I don't mean that it is without stratification, just that it is the only period in history where there has been a sustained and concerted effort to overcome stratification.

Does all stratification depend upon oppression though? And since there are some civilizations which were lost, can we really say they ALL were like this?

There are always exceptions, but if civilizations that weren't stratified existed at one time, the fact that they don't exist anymore might be itself demonstration of the truth of my assertion. Egalitarian cities would find it hard to compete economically against neighboring cities who were willing to put slaves to work in the fields, and who have the machinery in place to force all of the males over, say, 13, to pick up a sword and go out into battle.

Stratification boils down to the threat of violence -- as those who oppose it often discover when the latent violence becomes overt. So, yeah, stratification is hand-in-hand with oppression.

I think I am confusing stratification with specialization, probably.
Damn terns, gulls, etc... :)

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