sophiaserpentia | (no subject)

It's been said by some that the United States was founded on Christian principles. Here's one glaring problem with that.

[Romans 13:1] Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
[2] Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.
[3] For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;
[4] for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.
[5] Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake.
[6] For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.
[7] Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

Notably, the American revolutionaries were not just up against the government and army of Britain, they were up against the long-established Christian idea that governmental authority comes from God. In challenging King George III of Britain, they were rejecting the idea that God had given him a divine right to rule over them.

Consequently, when it came time to frame the Constitution, the founders began with words that made it clear the former colonies were rejecting the idea that government was ordained by God:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. (emphasis added)

crossposting to my journal and crossposting to

challenging_god

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You are so eerily on my wavelength.
I was thinking about the BS thing of Christianity being founded on Christian concepts this morning... and I thought...
If the United States is a Christian nation, why is caring for the poor not a Constitutional precept?
I didn't develop that thought any fuirther than thsat though because other thoughts wandered into my mind, like "It is 100 degrees and 100% humidity in this goddamn subway stattion; I hate the fucking corporate slime I work for; ooh, look the St Anthony Shrine, let me go talk to Legba and ask for help conniving my way through this stupid job today" "P

Interesting it would seem that Jesus, in opposing the Sadducees was in violation of Romans.

But yet another difference between Y'shua vision and that of the corrupting Paulines.

Well... to go by the conservative interpretation, since Jesus is God, if he opposes the Sadducees, then God has no longer ordained them.

Then why did they remain in power after Jesus's passing? Indeed, the temple was destroyed about 30-60 years after the death of Jesus; but the priesthood maintained Jewish authority.

Again, I think it is a cop-out of Pauline Christianity.

Reading this reminded me of an article I read a few weeks ago. I wondered what you thought of it:

http://www.outsidethecamp.org/pharisee.htm

My apologies, taht was me, signed in on the wrong account

I posted the above to 2 e-lists with referencing URL. Excellent post!

take a look at my class notes at:
http://surveyofcalvinsinstitutes.50megs.com/lesson16_essay.html

on:
Calvin and the doctrine of the rebellion under the lesser magistrates

The other problem is with the "two kingdoms" concept. Christians are supposed to be citizens of an heavenly kingdom, not of this world, and they should be ambassadors here. That means they cannot participate in the government of this "kingdom". :-)

I'll support that idea! :)

Amish and *conservative* Mennonites believe this, and therefore do not involve themselves in government. (Though that is changing.)

Jehovah Witnesses too.

Oh yeah. I knew I was forgetting one. Thanks. :-)

Have you heard the arguments suggesting that 13:1-7 is someone else's addition into Paul's writing?