sophiaserpentia: (Default)
sophiaserpentia ([personal profile] sophiaserpentia) wrote2004-04-11 01:11 pm

If I was a Christian, for Easter

I am a spiritual refugee, exiled from my home forever. I could be a Christian if not for scripture, if not for doctrine.

If I was a Christian, this is what I would believe.

That Jesus believed in us.

That Jesus wanted us to see that no matter what we had experienced or done before, that we could rise above it by living in accord with the spirit of compassion and love for the divine.

That Jesus wanted us to understand that we are all in this together, and that together we could make anything happen. There is no "us versus them," there are no enemies; those who limit or oppress us are lost in their own nightmare and suffer their own limitations, and there is always hope of helping them to wake up.

That Jesus wanted us to stand together in solidarity and love in the face of brutality.

That Jesus refused to cower in the face of persecution, and was killed for challenging injustice.

That Easter is a clear sign from God that resistance against wrong and limitation is not futile -- that living in perfect love and perfect trust is the key to victory over death and fate.

That Paul wanted us to understand that the Resurrection is a promise that God is on our side when we work to transcend the limitations of fate.

That Paul wanted us to play our part in the reconciliation whereby God will become all in all.

crossposted to my journal and crossposted to [livejournal.com profile] convert_me

[identity profile] firinel.livejournal.com 2004-04-11 10:04 pm (UTC)(link)
I assumed that this was just a natural part of rhetoric and debate.
By qualifying your statements in this way, you're making them unfalsifiably, aren't you? In which case it's not possible to have a debate. Even within the bounds of philosophical discourse it becomes undiscussable. You said "a", I've given you "b". So far as I can understand you've come back as saying "yes, I did qualify that it was only largely a, which allows for instances of b. but it's still largely a."

I don't invalidate that your experience has been such, and that the generalisations fit those that you've come in contact with, but I disagree that they fit Christians as a whole. I do feel as if you're, perhaps unconciously, invalidating mine, though, based on your language. I feel as if the "extensive experience of discourse with Christians" bit was thrown in as if to imply that I've had less, and therefore don't know what I'm talking about. I'm not even attempting to correct you or your experience, as I don't necessarily feel that you're wrong (nor do I think that there IS a 'wrong') merely give you my own, which does not agree with yours, for consideration. But you've said you "honestly do not think so.", and so ends the conversation.

[identity profile] sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com 2004-04-11 10:26 pm (UTC)(link)
you're making them unfalsifiably, aren't you?

That wasn't my intent, honestly. I truly did not think that those statements would cause contention.


So far as I can understand you've come back as saying "yes, I did qualify that it was only largely a, which allows for instances of b. but it's still largely a."

If my conclusions are based on skewed experience, then I'm wrong and require correction.


I feel as if the "extensive experience of discourse with Christians" bit was thrown in as if to imply that I've had less, and therefore don't know what I'm talking about.

I realized after clicking "post" that that came across as snarky, and for that I apologize.

I honestly didn't mean to imply that you don't know what you're talking about -- I only wanted to explain somehow that I have had a lot of conversations with many different people who call themselves Christians, and my conclusions about what Christianity is and what Christians believe and do is based on those encounters.

Truly, if I am wrong, I would be happy about that, because it would mean that I am not the 'refugee' I have come to feel that I am.

[identity profile] firinel.livejournal.com 2004-04-12 06:48 am (UTC)(link)
I don't think you're wrong; I'm not attempting to correct you. I don't think this is a case of right/wrong, nor do I think most things are. To want to find someone wrong in order to prove your (general you, not you personally) beliefs right is not something Jesus taught was proper. Dogma and all aside, what Christians are generally expected to do is follow the teaching's of Jesus. The need to prove other people wrong often demonstrates an immense lack of security in one's beliefs. It irritates me when I catch myself behaving as if its the proper way to conduct myself, and it often means I need to spend more time being deliberately conscious of my relationship with God.

Since it came up in the thread you linked to, I will mention that I use belief to mean "something I've accepted as true based on any mixture of my own experience, studying, instinct, perception, etc-- which necessitates that no other person will have the same 'beliefs' as I do. This means, by definition, there is no reason for me to get upset if people don't believe as I do. We're blind, and and everything is an elephant (http://www.mcps.k12.md.us/curriculum/socialstd/grade7/india/Blind_elephant.html).

I do think that the Christians you've talked to are primarily the more conservative ones, and they tend to be the more vocal, simply because the most mindful of liberal Christians will not discredit your relationship with God.