Can I have this posted on a plaque in every courthouse in America? It's by a saint...

[sophiaserpentia]

Let us suppose that in explaining the words, "And God said, 'Let there be light,' and light was made," one man thinks that it was material light that was made, and another that it was spiritual. As to the actual existence of spiritual light in a spiritual creature, our faith leaves no doubt; as to the existence of material light, celestial or supercelestial, even existing before the heavens, a light which could have been followed by night, there will be nothing in such a supposition contrary to the faith until unerring truth gives the lie to it. And if that should happen, this teaching was never in Holy Scripture but was an opinion proposed by man in his ignorance.

... Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience.

Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of the faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men.

If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books.

--Augustine, On The Literal Meaning of Genesis, Chapter 19

Comments

[marnanel.livejournal.com]

I like Augustine, generally. I certainly don't think everything he ever did or wrote was sensible, but he seems to have been a reasonably together sort of person. If anyone asks me to nominate a long-dead person to be temporarily resuscitated for a cup of coffee, he might well be on my list.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

He was a product of his times. I agree that he seems to have been mostly sensible, but since I read about the way he used and advocated violence to subdue the Donatists and Gnostics in his -- um, would it have been called a diocese back then? -- my opinion of him has shifted downward somewhat.

[winegodeatsyou.livejournal.com]

It would have been simply the Egyptian See. His use of violence to surpress donatist (and some Gnostics, there weren't a whole lot of the first batch left by them) was the justification for using such violence by the Inquistion.

Now, I generally like Augustine, because his views on the nature of the church different greatly from what is taught today and he would be considered a heretic himself.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

the justification for using such violence by the Inquistion.

And the Albigensian Crusade. Those are reasons I cannot in good conscience call Dominic a saint.


Now, I generally like Augustine, because his views on the nature of the church different greatly from what is taught today and he would be considered a heretic himself.

As would Clement, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian and many of the other early prominent church figures -- they all promoted doctrines or teachings that would be considered heretical today.

[winegodeatsyou.livejournal.com]

Tertullian borhers me to no end, but Clement, to be fair, was consider a heretic by many in his own day.

[alobar.livejournal.com]

I read the passage thru twice. I still don't have a clue as to what he was trying tosay, so I have no idea if I agree with it or not.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

Basically he was acknowledging that there was plenty of scientific evidence to doubt the literal creation account, even in his day. Further, those who try to claim that it is literally true (ie. that the world was created in six literal 24-hour days) make Christians look ignorant and, further, make people think that the authors of scripture didn't know what they were talking about.

[alobar.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the clarification. I hardly ever read anone earlier than 20th century writers. anguage has changed a lot & trying to understand older writers is not an artform I have ever mastered.

[akaiyume.livejournal.com]

You wicked, evil little girl ::grin::

You know as well as I do that many of the most vociferous advocates of the "gawd's word equals law" argument equate Catholicism with ungodly heathanism.

Shame on you to even quote the words of one who could even suggest that god did not create the particle/wave phenomena known as light. Next thing that you will be telling me is that fourth commandment did not always mean attending church on Sunday, but instead referred the the traditional Jewish Shabbat (insert the sarcasm punctuation mark here).


Maybe someone should inscribe the United States Constitution and then the particular laws that apply to the type of court in question on the walls of the building. Maybe then more peole would come to realise how many of our laws are well, questionable.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

You wicked, evil little girl

You got me pegged, sweetie. :-D


You know as well as I do that many of the most vociferous advocates of the "gawd's word equals law" argument equate Catholicism with ungodly heathanism.

I've always wondered how a Protestant can make that assertion, since the Protestants were schismatics off of the... oh, never mind.


Maybe someone should inscribe the United States Constitution and then the particular laws that apply to the type of court in question on the walls of the building.

I'd settle for a law requiring a plaque of the first amendment to be posted next to every ten commandments idol.